eBay seller scam - sends empty package and gives invalid return address for return

Subbu92
Contributor
Contributor

Hi, I recently purchased two items on eBay, on what I though was a deal - they were already 300+ items sold and the seller had good feedbacks so  I thought the seller is genuine. (but he had been selling only Rubik cubes and hats in the feedbacks - in hindsight this should have tipped me) The item I purchased were Android TV sticks and winter jacket - about $20 each and they are shipping from China.

After I made payment I got MC999 notice form ebay, the item and the seller are not there anymore. For one item the seller has sent me empy package when I raised a claim - significantly not as described, he gives a invalid address to send a return - <xyz name>, beijing municipality, China. Now even if return his empty package, I have to pay for return shipping with tracking number (which would be about or more than $20) and even if I do that the package will never be delivered as the address is wrong.

For the other item I raise a never received claim - he has given a tracking number which does not show or does not exists. Or he may do the same trick of empy package.

What are my options in this situation.

I feel like being cheated and also very false sense of protection provided by paypal buyer protection program. When you read the fine print, the fraud seller's like this one can easily get away with and paypal does not do anything about it.

Can't paypal looked a seller history and make a easy refund for fraud cases like this. When they algos at eBay to trap this case and do a MC999, why can't they do returns based on these.

What are my options now - within in paypal or if nothing works out here - to other forums outside paypal / ebay?

Anybody please advise.

 

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7 REPLIES 7

PayPal_Andy
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Subbu92 -

 

First off, welcome to the boards! Sorry that it's such a difficult situation that brings you here though. 😞

 

You'll want to get in touch with our customer service, as it is possible we can issue a refund without you needing to return the empty box. That is especially likely if the seller's eBay account (and potentially their PayPal account) have issues. You can either call us, or reach out to us via Twitter or Facebook private message. Whatever works best for you!

 

- Andy

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optic_illusion
New Community Member

I have the exact same problem as described above. The seller's account has been removed from eBay and PayPal similiar to the above mentioned scenario. Called PayPal as suggested, but I was directed to ship to the invalid address (hjj, ghj, Beijing Municipality jhj China) anyways. Is it not insane to mail to a non-existent address, knowing that it'll definitely bounce back?

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optic_illusion
New Community Member

@optic_illusion wrote:

I have the exact same problem as described above. The seller's account has been removed from eBay and PayPal similiar to the above mentioned scenario. Called PayPal as suggested, but I was directed to ship to the invalid address (hjj, ghj, Beijing Municipality jhj China) anyways. Is it not insane to mail to a non-existent address, knowing that it'll definitely bounce back?


Just recieved a notification that I got the refund, without the need to mail back to the invalid address. I was beginning to lose faith in the Buyer Protection plan, and I'm glad that the PayPal staff has made the right decision here. My confidence in PayPal is restored!

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Subbu92
Contributor
Contributor

After a month of struggle got my refund.

My lessons learnt

1) Always open ebay claim when available not paypal claim - purposefully opening a ebay claim is not very handy, have to go to Resolution center and open it. The reason is it is almost impossible to reach paypal customer service over phone while ebay customer service number is reasonable.

2) I got my resolution by using the email option in paypal contact page. Initial you will get a automated help link from id webform something @paypal, the trick is if you reply to that you will reach a actual customer service representative. My case was result via this route.

3) Attached pictures of the item in the case to customer service, it resulted in quick resolve time

4) Another fine print I learnt about paypal buyer protection, only one buyer protection payment will be made per buyer per year after that there is no protection for the rest of the year.

 

When ebay algorithm can detect frauds and delete the account why can't the equivalent paypal transactions be reversed automatically? This leads me to think ebay/paypal also interested in getting their share of the spoil as fee in fraud / cheating transactions and repay only when the buyer raises a complaint and who is persistent to put through the process, which would be a few percentage.

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The_Seller
Contributor
Contributor

Just wanted to respond, person above said, "it is almost impossible to reach paypal customer service over phone"

Well, that is completely incorrect. I've had to call Paypal many, many times over the years starting around 1998.

I've almost always had excellent customer service and I almost always am able to get through to them in a reasonable time.

Ebay, you can get through in 10 minutes or up to an hour or more, it varies greatly. Rarely I've had to wait over two hours to get through to Ebay. On average I have to call Ebay once a week, and paypal once a month, so over the years that's a lot of calls. And it takes a huge amout of time.

 

Paypal now I'm starting to get foreign people on the phone, which has some good things about it but mostly it's bad.

The Ebay foreign workers are HIGHLY variable. You can get an extremely bad one, and call right back and get a very good one. I did that today, first one was really bad, second one was really super good. Amazing. You can really see the lack of training at Ebay, takes them a long time to get up to speed. But some of the foreign workers now have been around a few years, and they're getting good, thankfully.

 

Also the person said above that buyer protections, you're only allowed one per year, and that's just plain bizzare and totally false.

 

And saying Ebay wants to get it's share of the fraud, well, hehe there is some truth to that. Yes, Ebay can't be the police but knowingly allowing fake items to continue to be sold on their site is a real shame because they are facilitating fraud. I've even reported specific auctions and sellers to Ebay that are almost all from China, that are selling fakes, and I'm a certified professional in those specific items, and they took all my documentation several times over the last few years. Ebay's President's office promised to get to the bottom of the issue. And yet those items and those sellers from China are still selling those fakes. Some of the feedbacks from these sellers says things like "sold me fakes" "Sells fakes, beware" etc. and those sellers are still on Ebay. I myself purchased some of these items as examples so I could 100% verify these items were fakes, and yet those sellers are still on ebay selling items.

 

The real problem with fakes is this:  Flooding the USA with fakes from China destroys the collectible markets for those items.

When you have Civil War Memorabilia, or minerals, or fossils, or collectible cards such as sport cards, and we have a market for these items in the USA, and many of the items have a great deal of value. Suddenly there are thousands of very high quality "replicas" of these items being sold as the real thing. The market value for these items collapses. Right now the USA is being flooded, for instance, with high quality Magic: The Gathering cards. Magic cards can be worth many thousands of dollars each. What do you think will happen to your Magic collections value when the market is flooded with Chinese fakes? It just ruins that hobby. The producer of these items is trying to make more counterfiet proof cards but it's not easy. The law enforcement entity for fakes in the USA is the US Seceret Service. I've actually worked with them on two cases. They're overwhelmed by the numbers of fakes, they're like a mosquito biting an elephant, almost completly unnoticed. It's really sad what's happening.

 

 

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DebbieKat
Contributor
Contributor

I believe I've fallen victim to a variation of the OP's issue. I ordered an item from a seller in mexico. The seller issued a tracking number that initially did not show any results on the shipping site until maybe a week later. It took several weeks before I received any update on the item's shipping status. I suspected this was mostly customs related. When the item finally arrived locally, I received a notification from the seller that the shipper was reporting a bad address and I should attempt to stop them from sending it back. Well, that's not even a possibility as the shipper does not allow anyone to change the shipment address. The seller indicated to me that they would reship once it was received. The item supposedly was shipped back to him. That was at the end of October. It is now December 19th and I've heard nothing further from the seller. I have made a last-ditch attempt to contact the seller asking for a refund. I suspect I won't receive a response. I'm trying to use one of the other posters' tips about emailing paypal. I did contact ebay about this issue by phone, since it's already past their 30 day buyer protection window. They recommended contacting paypal to open an issue with them. Did that too. Will see where it ends up. I'm a little peeved that I'm not even able to provide feedback on the seller.

 

Oh, and regarding being able to contact paypal by phone, ebay patched me in to their customer service line. I waited 30 minutes before finally giving up.

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sunrise12
New Community Member

Dear DebbieKat, please do not give up. There are a lot of things you can do. I'm a buyer and a seller on Ebay. Ebay has a much longer than 30 day window, and last I looked Paypals was six months. But irregardless, if you used your credit card, you can always call the number on your card and explain you never got the item (you have 90 days with your cc). If you didn't use your cc, please go to your transaction on Paypal. At the bottom of the transaction it says, "You can still report a problem with this transaction for up to 180 days".

Click on that or just go to the resolution center. Chose I have a problem with the item I purchased, and just state clearly and briefly that you never got the item. You do not have to wait on the phone.

 

Ebay and Paypal both now are 100% on the side of the buyer AND the seller, both. What I mean by that is, if a buyer is unhappy with a purchase and the seller refuses to except returns (like me, I do not except returns), the buyer gets their money back and the seller, who's done nothing wrong, also keeps their money. Ebay/Paypal is coughing up the dough to keep people happy.

 

That only happens if you have some skill at using their systems though. You have to try hard and perservere. Don't give up. It's common for me to spend many hours on the phone, but I don't give up. My last problem the 1st rep didn't understand, the 2nd rep understood but didn't listen to me or look into it carefully, the 3rd rep was a very nice young man who listened, spent a lot of time with me understanding, and then did what for me was the right thing. Since 1998 I've never lost a case.

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