Address for Service (I wish to claim damages - sue - PayPal from the UK)

[markocosic]

Hi,

Does anybody know the "address for service" for PayPal? I am based in the UK and made the purchase from the UK.

I would like to sue PayPal for damages. Broadly:

- I bought an item (automotive headlight)

- The sender didn't send it

- I opened a dispute

- The sender sent me a piece of trash (a small roll of stickers) via tracked mail

- The sender deleted their website

- I sent PayPal a photograph of the trash including the shipping label; stating that this was blatant fraud by a seller who clearly had no intention of ever supplying the goods, and requested a refund

- PayPal denied that this was fraud and effectively ruled in favour of the seller by asking me to ship the trash back to a PO box in China via tracked mail and leaving it up to the seller to confirm when the item was received and issue a refund. (chances of this happening are zero as I explained to willingly deaf ears)

- I opened a dispute with AmEx instead

- AmEx issued a chargeback to PayPal

- PayPal lied to AmEx in writing by stating that the goods had been received

- AmEx cancelled the chargeback

I am therefore suing PayPal for consequential losses. The chargeback failed because PayPal lied to AmEx in writing. My losses due to PayPal's lie are the chargeback. Therefore I'd like to sue them.

Has anybody done this? Do you know what the appropriate address for service is?

Thanks

[kernowlass]

@markocosic 

In the event of a dispute you choose your seller and not Paypal so you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you go ahead and buy from that seller / country.

Paypal state this >>
IMPORTANT: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party we specify as part of the settlement of your claim. PayPal Buyer Protection does not entitle you to reimbursement for the return shipping costs that you may incur.

Although they will compensate you for some of the cost if you have activated this at some point before you made that transaction.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card. However your card issuer found against you as you must have cited non receipt of item and not item received but not as described?

[markocosic]

Hi @kernowlass 

The item was not received. The seller sent what was essentially an empty envelope for the purpose of obtaining a tracking number.

The card issuer closed the chargeback (raised for fraud on the basis the item was not received) "because PayPal has provided evidence that the seller delivered the item."

The chard issuer did this because PayPal told the card issuer that the item was delivered. (in full with no qualifiers) The card issuer therefore believed PayPal's version of events.

This happened AFTER PayPal was provided with evidence that the item was not received. PayPal therefore knowingly lied to the card issuer about the item being received and caused my to incur a loss for which I would like to pursue them through the courts.

At this point it is impossible for me to return the item to the seller. PayPal have hidden all information relating to the initial dispute from within my account page. Only the following is displayed:

"Item not received – claim
Case ID: PP-D-XXXXXXXX

While we review, you won't be required to take any action. You can contact your credit card company directly if you want to cancel this case or need more details.
We were notified by your credit card company that you filed a case for a payment made on 5 Dec 2020."

The option to receive a return the item for a refund was withdrawn the moment that I raised the chargeback. The information provided was also hidden from view. Presumably in order to make it more difficult to contest PayPal's decision. Possibly due to a rogue employee at PayPal trying to cover their mistakes. I am unclear on whether this is an automatic policy designed to frustrate providing evidence against PayPal or a one-off action; but the net effect is the same: offer to return item withdrawn and all evidence previously submitted hidden and perhaps destroyed.

Criminal wins. PayPal take their cut of the proceeds of crime. Both are happy. Both are immoral if not criminal.

[markocosic]

It looks like PayPal read this forum as they have suddenly decided to provide an answer. 

Because they seem to pay more attention to this forum than they do to messages raised in their system, I will respond here.

Here's some advice to those wanting to commit fraud:

1) If the seller provides a tracking number (for anything) then PayPal will ASSUME that the item was delivered.

2) If the seller sends a complete piece of rubbish to the buyer then this is still counts as the item being delivered in PayPal's "correct, fair, and reasonable "view of he world.

3) PayPal claim that they DO NOT review anything manually and will IGNORE all the evidence that they asked you to send proving that the item had not arrived so there is nothing that the buyer can do to claim that the item has not arrived.

4) PayPal will force the buyer to return the rubbish to a PO Box in China AND for the seller to confirm that the piece of rubbish has been received by the seller before they refund the buyer. All the seller needs to do is deny that the items was returned and you can keep your money.

I hope this helps aspiring criminals to understand how PayPal works with them to defraud buyers.

Here's some advice to buyers / victims of PayPal's policy:

PayPal's full response is reproduced below. The two useful parts are:

1) their legal address (for a summons)

2) their invitation to request additional information about your account

I've sent the following:

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I require "additional information relating to my PayPal account" relating to this case.

I have filed a chargeback with American Express. I claimed that the item that I ordered WAS NOT received.

American Express have told me that PayPal DISPUTED this chargeback. PayPal STATED that the item I ordered WAS received.

This contradicts PayPal's "final response" to my complaint where PayPal state "we have no way to manually review items when it is reported that they are incorrect or not as described" - if this were true then PayPal would have have no way to state that the item I ordered WAS received.

I therefore conclude that PayPal DO have a way to manually review items when it is reported that they are incorrect or not as described, and that PayPal DID review this case so that they could DISPUTE the chargeback.

I REQUEST a copy of the evidence presented to American Express to justify DISPUTING the chargeback. This is information relating to my PayPal account.

If PayPal PROVIDE the evidence that the item I ordered was received then there is no problem; except for PayPal lying about having no way to manually review items when it is reported that they are incorrect or not as described. I will conclude that PayPal are dishonest but there are no financial penalties for being dishonest provided that I am refunded what I am rightfully owed.

If PayPal REFUSE to provide the evidence then it may harm your defence in a court of law if you do not disclose supporting evidence when you are asked to do so. I will also add this to any complaint to the Ombudsman.

I await your response within 7 calendar days. Time is now of the essence because PayPal have issued a "final response" and started the 6 month timer on referral to the Ombudsman.

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Here was PayPal's final response:

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Dear Marko Cosic,
 
We're following up on your complaint regarding your experience using PayPal. We want to assure you that we take all complaints seriously and use what we learn to help improve the services we offer.  

Our review of your PayPal account is now complete, and this is our final response. In these circumstances, the matter raised in your complaint is not accepted. We describe below what we've done to investigate your complaint. 

Upon review of your dispute for 63.45 USD with case id PP-D-94704270. I sincerely regret the inconvenience that the matter had caused you. I can understand that with items purchased from China that they can be more expensive to transport, however we must adhere to our policy as outlined in our user agreement. I hope you understand that as an online payment processor, when a buyer opens a claim, we have no way to manually review items when it is reported that they are incorrect or not as described. Therefore, we may ask you to return the item in order to receive a full refund.

As you now have filed a chargeback with your bank we can longer work on the internal dispute in our end as it is now closed. You will now need to follow up with the chargeback dispute that you filed with your bank. Upon checking the current status of your chargeback we are waiting for the final response of your bank. If you would like to get more details of the chargeback you will need to get in touch directly with your bank.

We value you as a customer and we're satisfied that our actions in this case were correct, fair, and reasonable under the circumstances.   

We trust that our decision brings this matter to a close. If you need any additional information relating to your PayPal account, please don't hesitate to contact us.  

If you are dissatisfied with our response to your complaint you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge – but you must do so within six months of the date of this letter. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.  The website of the Financial Ombudsman is available at: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/. For more information, please read about the Financial Ombudsman Service. 

Alternatively, you have the right to refer your complaint to the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF), free of charge – but you must do so within one year of the date you first complained to PayPal. The CSSF is the authority responsible for the prudential supervision of companies in the financial sector in Luxembourg. You can contact the CSSF at 283 Route d'Arlon, L-1150 Luxembourg.  

You may obtain further information regarding the CSSF and how to contact them at: https://www.cssf.lu/en (for complaint specific information please refer to https://www.cssf.lu/en/customer-complaint/).  

Yours sincerely,
 
Mark Waters
Executive Escalations
PayPal 
 
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