How did paypal find in the buyer's favor? Item still in customs! $1800 lost!

koobs
Contributor
Contributor

Hey all,

I am a 10+ year paypal user, ebay powerseller and top-rated seller.  I have never been so upset with paypal's handling of a dispute.  Usually I understand why they decide things the way they do, but not this one.  I have paid tens of thousands of dollars in paypal fees alone over my years on ebay, and now they are taking some extra.

I sold a computer system ($1550) back in June to a guy in Brazil.  The buyer then opened a dispute 5 days later, claiming the item had not been received.  I uploaded tracking info (USPS express mail = $230), and then the item got stuck in customs waiting for the guy to come pick it up.  He escalated the dispute to a claim and I contact USPS for info on the item location. They called back a few days later informing me that the item was being help in customs awaiting the buyer.

I then called paypal, who was investigating the claim at the time, and informed them of these details and told them they could call USPS and confirm.  They said ok, and told me they would wait to see what ensued.  Then less than a week later I get an email telling me that they are closing the case in the favor of the buyer because it had not been delivered!! 

I called paypal again to find out why the item was closed when I had proof the item was in customs and they said it had taked too long to get there.  OF COURSE IT HAD!! HE HASN'T PAID THE FEES!!!  Why could they not wait until the computer was delivered, or returned to me, before closing the case in the buyer's favor? They could have at least told the buyer he needs to rejest the item first!

 

I had 3rd party insurance on the package, but could not open a claim because the buyer is non responsive and I needed him to sign an affidavit stating that the item had not been received.  The timeline for that claim is now over.

The item is still in customs and I cannot communicate with anyone there because apparently they all only speak Portuguese.  What recourse do I have in this case?  I know the customs fees are the responsibility of the buyer, so why am I being held responsible for this?  I am fuming mad about this.  Basically the buyer can now take his paypal refund to pay the customs fees on MY COMPUTER, and I will be you know what.

 

I would really like to hear from someone high up in paypal on this one, because talking to the reps on the phone was ridiculously frustrating, and I am a merchant member!  Nobody could provide a clear explanation as to why the case had been closed.

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6 REPLIES 6

PayPal_Olivia
Moderator
Moderator

Hi koobs, and welcome to the forums!

 

I'm sorry that you've had this experience. You're correct, if all other things are equal, the buyer's refusal to pay the customs fees should not leave the seller liable.

 

How long has the item been stuck in customs? Is it documented that the reason for the delay is the buyer's lack of payment? Is customs returning the item to you?

 

Please give Customer Solutions another call, or if you use Twitter, try contacting @AskPayPal. Let them know you want to appeal the case, and supply the answers to the above questions. Let me know how it turns out!

 

Olivia

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koobs
Contributor
Contributor

Thank you for the quick response, Olivia.

 

The item has been in customs since early mid-July.  I have a voicemail (from early August) on my phone from a USPS rep informing me that Braziil customs is holding the package waiting for the buyer to contact them and collect the item.  They have not indicated when/if they will send the package back to me. 

 

I will contact paypal again to see if I can get a different result.

 

-Chris

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PayPal_Olivia
Moderator
Moderator

Hi koobs,

 

The biggest problem sellers face with delivery confirmation is that it is just that - confirmation of delivery. It will only confirm actual delivery if delivery has occurred. It's not actual tracking per se, and a USPS employee would likely be the first person to tell you that. When it comes to getting updated information through or past customs, the information can go for a long time without update or movement, up to the point where it's actually in the hands of the recipient. Additionally, it doesn't report the reason for the delay ( in this case for instance, lack of buyer response.)

 

When a non-receipt claim is filed, there's one question - has the item been delivered or not? When the item has not been delivered, the buyer typically gets a refund. If the online tracking states that the package is awaiting buyer pickup and/or payment of customs fees, the actual update to the tracking would show clearly what the story is, which would inform the decision far better. In a situation where that information is absent and no updates occur... well that's when we see a situation like the one you describe.

 

As a seller, there are a few things you can do to avoid this. One is to check on your tracking for items that are in dispute, and if they're stalled in customs, call the post office to inquire. If the buyer is refusing to pick it up, you have some options. If the online tracking can be updated with a detailed reason for the hold, ask them to do so. If not, request the return of your package. That way, you won't risk being out both the item and the money. Another option is to look into a courier like FedEx or UPS. Ask them how detailed their tracking typically is as opposed to delivery confirmation. The added benefit is greater accuracy in reporting once it gets past customs in the destination country since one company is handling both ends of the delivery transaction (as opposed to the postal services of two separate countries.) However, typically the cost is greater, too.

 

For this particular situation, especially since the dispute is no longer recent, your very best bet is to see if you can recover the package. You can definitely give Customer Solutions a call and see if they have anything different to add when looking at the details. Based on what you've described, it's the course of action I would take if I were in your place, to cover myself as best as possible.

 

I really truly hope this helps. Please let me know how it turns out!

 

Olivia

If this post or any other was helpful, please enrich the Community by giving kudos to its author, accepting it as a solution, and/or coming back to assist others. Members make this Community great!
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koobs
Contributor
Contributor

Well the package was finally claimed and delivered today. I have contacted paypal appeals so hopefully I will get my money back!  http://websro.correios.com.br/sro_bin/txect01$.QueryList?P_LINGUA=001&P_TIPO=001&Z_ACTION=%22%22&P_I...

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ktandthesquid
Contributor
Contributor

Ouch, Bro.  Glad it was delivered...but it won't matter. PayPay will simply tell the buyer they should return the money to you, and the buyer will simply say "**bleep** that, I got a free computer."

Your best course of action will probably be a small claims court action against PayPal for basically aiding and abetting in a fraud.

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koobs
Contributor
Contributor

wow, you are right.  that is exactly what happened.  I won the appeal, so they sent a "courtesy message"  to the buyer asking them to refund me.  LOL. are you f-ing kidding me paypal?  Looks like I am taking this one to small claims court.  Paypal can fly someone out to Iowa to defend this.   Their own website states that if the appeal is granted, the money will be reimbursed, but clearly that is a lie.  Good thing I have it in writing.  This is how they treat a long time customer? First they close this case while the item is waiting for customs fees, and now this?  **bleep** you, paypal.  See you in court. 

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