Paypal prompting me to break the law in order to resolve my claim over buying counterfeit goods :0s

[dean_dodds]

I bought 4 Disney DVD's from www.century21shop.co.uk and when they arrived, I was horrified to see they were posted from Thialand, and surprise surprise the DVD's were blatently fake.

They don't have the Disney Hologram, the print is all smudged/ghost like, the back of the DVD cover says "for sale in the USA/Canada only", and Region 1, even thought they should be region 2.

I rang the police to report the website, and have had a visit from a police officer, who has given me a crime reference number, however Paypal have said that won't do, and I have to get a statement from a retailer to confirm they are fake, or they have agreed to refund me if I post the fake items back to Thialand.

Two really strange things

1. It would be against the law to post counterfeit goods through the post, so returning the item would mean I was doing something illegal.

2. I was informed by the police officer who came to my house that if I was stopped when walking around shops with fake DVD's that more than Likely I would be arrested, on suspission of dealing in counterfeit goods.

I have however rang around retailers to try and see if they would agree to give me this letter. So far I have spoken to the Disney Shop / Morrisons/ HMV / Tesco & Asda, who have all said that its not something they could supply, yet when I rang Paypal to explain I was told that unless I supplied that, or posted it back, they would challenge my Direct Debit indemnity claim with the bank.

When I explained that the 2 options which they want me to explore would both mean I would be breaking the law, I had the reply (from a Supervisor at Paypal), that lots of people every day sell Fake items, so the chances of me getting caught with them would be slim to none. HELLO, how can a company like Paypal think its acceptable that because all the other criminals out there deal in fakes, that its acceptable for me to risk it.

What a joke, I am going to speak to the retailer disputes team at the bank to explain that the only options paypal are giving me are illegal ones, and will also be reporting Paypal to the FSA to let them know as well, and see if they aren't happy with Paypal's ludacris requests in order to protect a buyer of fake items.

I have offered photo's of the items missing the holograms etc, but they don't accept those either.

What can I do?, I don't want to get ripped off, and also don't really want to break the law in order to prove my case in getting the money back.

The crime reference from the police isn't good enough, even though I have reported the DVD's, and the website that they were bought from.

Another Paypal con in my eyes, to protect the people who sell fake items, as that is where Paypal is making their money.

[duggiemillward]

I had recently ordered a DVD from century21shop which hasn't arrived and by the sounds of it I don't want it to arrive.

I have also found that the century21shop website is no longer operational, but is now operating under "www.for-christmas.co.uk" and has PayPal all over it claiming secure ordering.

So this looks to me like PayPal is endorsing fraudulant transactions!! bad, bad press for PayPal.

Better off using a Credit Card, as under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, this makes them liable for any breach of contract and will have to refund you, then they will sort compensation from the sellar themselves.

I think I will be using my Credit Card from now and not PayPal, unless they sort themselves out as I have raised a claim dispute and had no answer from either the sellar or PayPal yet.

So we'll see what happens.

[PayPal_lucy]

Hey there,

I can understand the frustration in receiving counterfeit items.

Asharpshooter, you don't have to send the items back once they are confirmed as counterfeit.

Lola123, if a seller has a number of disputes opening against them for seller counterfeit items this does not go unnoticed and further action will be taken against this seller.

Duggiemillward, if you do receive the items let us know straight away if they are counterfeit. And please be aware that you need to file a case within 45 days of the transaction date.

[essexman]

I was going to agree with paypal at first on this one its dificult when you recive counterfit goods but has any of you guys tried contacting your local trading standards as this is more there expertise than police also if its Disney DVDs im sure Disney would help as it alll loss to there buisness and they would not like to see customers being sold an inferior product.

It is very unlikley from Thailand that these are for the European Pal market and could be for asian market but still I would class as items not as described if not counterfit.

Im hoping theres going to be some internet rules on .co.uk sites but trading outside of UK or Europe one exception would be the channel Isalnds.

I had same thing had to return items to china although items was delivered from UK had to return to china becasue thats the address he gave to return too and it will cost you guys at 8.15 minimum for internatinal signed for thats just one DVD when its not your fault and internatinal post not as good as UK domestic.

[MNK]

a new scenario for you all. after years of dealing on ebay and using PayPal, i was stitched off big time>> BEWARE, all the protection for sellers are crap and worth nothing to nil.. post having an issue, the finding was you just have to lose your money!! Yes, trust me on that…

I sold OMEGA genuine item to seller in different country worth 912 pounds including postage and he field that item is fake and got my item for free. he obviously have identical fake product and evaluated as my item, got the document and presented to PayPal, so it is that easy to foul PayPal.

almost 4 weeks and got nowhere so might file court case against PayPal as A:they have failed to protect me as they stated they will and B: for the stress i have from money went from and to my account several times in different currency converted and mistakes in currency vs. amount credited and debited back and so on, no more **bleep** from PayPal, money transfer going forward or cash on collection, never take risk ..oh, forgot to mention that between eBay and PayPal over 145 pound in fee will not be refunded and obviously lost my watch for free, PayPal got their money as well as eBay and dumped me with huge bill...! imagine that.

NEVER USE PAYPAL EVER, peace of mind, cash on delivery or banks draft else DO NOT TAKE RISK....!

[KerryMC]

I too have been fighting PayPal after receiving counterfeit Abercrombie & Fitch items after placing an order with www.abercrombiefitchol.co.uk. I have sent photographic proof, Action Fraud Reference, Trading Standards Reference and an email from the Authentic Abercrombie site which states they have no affiliation to the company stated, however I foresee issues that this will not be accepted by PayPal as not on headed paper?!.

The 'waters' have been muddied further as it does not appear the above mentioned site is still operational however the link takes you to a replicated site of www.abercrombieukol.co.uk.  Two days ago the same link directed to www.abercrombieuks-outlet.co.uk. I guess the company are old hands at trying to avoid detection.

The items I received were absolutely shocking - one was very poorly manufactured with raw seams and a rather sorry looking being that can only be described as a demented camel instead of the trademark Moose. The other was beyond a joke...Brighter than Cerise Pink (should have been deep maroon), totally wrong style and to top it off, I ordered a small - it was bigger than the medium I also ordered and was too big for my husband with a 48 inch chest!!. 

I work in UK law enforcement, and yes due to the matter happening outside the UK there is very little that the Police can do in these circumstances, however if you were to post the items back to their originator as suggested by PayPal, you would indeed be prosecutable, this would also apply if you were to sell the items on.

I am awaiting the next update from PayPal...... guessing more jumping through hoops will be required but with little time to do it in.

Perhaps it is time that PayPal reviewed their policy on Counterfeit items, all that would be required is a brief policy to all sellers that if the items are deemed to be counterfeit by the purchaser and substantiated with a Police Reference given to and authenticated by PayPal , then PayPal will automatically find in favour of the purchaser and close the sellers account after the refund has been issued.

PayPal also need to be aware that giving 3 days to respond is insufficient. And of course, a heads up that their email will contain the information they require rather than the dispute centre - silly me!

[Dementis_Mulier]

Looks like ive been stitched up too. Brought a DVD from ********** and didnt realize it was coming from Thailand until i tried to contact the seller then recieved the DVD. It is of course, counterfiet. I provided pcitures and full details to paypal but they want me to send the dvd back to the seller.

Theres no point in doing that when it will cost me around the same price to post as the dvd itself costs and it illegal.

Paypal you should be ashamed of yourselfs! Letting innocent people be conned daily is just not on. 

Post edited to comply with forum guidelines

[Gibbo99]

Same problem with same website.i sent mine back to address PayPal gave me, which was different to one they was sent from. Still no joy and still struggling with PayPal. Reported to action fraud and have police crime reference number. But PayPal still dragging feet.

[NickInSurrey]

I bought a SatNav update disk from what I thought was a UK company, Navizip.co.uk, but instead received a home-made crude copy of a DVD from Lithuania. I have had the dispute request for refund settled in my favour but I am expected to return the disk to the seller. I have e-mailed my concerns to PayPal and await a reply....

[NickInSurrey]

Matter resolved with a full refund and no requirement to return the disk. I e-mailed PayPal, pointing out that to return it made the evidence of copyright theft unavailable and that the postage for a tracked package to Lithuania is unreasonable since the website makes it appear that the disk is being supplied a UK company. Well done PayPal for considering the evidence and acting on it!

[Dementis_Mulier]

@NickInSurrey wrote:
Matter resolved with a full refund and no requirement to return the disk. I e-mailed PayPal, pointing out that to return it made the evidence of copyright theft unavailable and that the postage for a tracked package to Lithuania is unreasonable since the website makes it appear that the disk is being supplied a UK company. Well done PayPal for considering the evidence and acting on it!

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How did you manage to include that in the case? I cant seem to add anything, its just asking for me to send the dvd back.