Scams with Paypal/Royal Mail shutting me down - Out of business soon

[kj8710]

This is the thing, A lot of people are not honest .
I always send out replacements if anything goes missing and always end up giving a refund but this is out of control .Royal Mail are not losing multiple packages to the same address .If they are then again , It's THEIR responsibility not mine if its sent 1st class recorded tracked and signed for .Surely Iit is a PAID service and is under legal contract of terms and conditions in which THEY are reponsible

A lot of people will get/who do get the package without a signature will try it on and say it never arrived, A replacement will always be sent by myself and be sent out again 1st class recorded .

the 2nd one gets posted with no signature again as they have a " friendly postman" who is trying to save them trouble going to collect it from the sorting office .Royal Mail are not losing multiple packages to the same address ...

Customer then puts a claim in on Paypal ..

The customer now has in my eg , 2 x goods of £35 plus postage costs and a refund from Paypal ..

They can then go to Royal mail and claim full money back with their proof of purchase on Paypal ..

They now have £70 plus 2 packages worth £35 ( £140 TOTAL ) because of Royal Mail ..

My Paypal is now £35 in the red just from this case ( I have another one trying it on too at £108 on top of this , Another potential £432 they will end up with while I get nothing but banned ) So £140 in the red and I cannot do anything about my current orders which will then lead to even more cases and me being shut down as i have no access to MY money .

Thats a total of £572 for packages only worth £143 .Whos pocket is this coming out of exactly ? That's right mine .Or the main bulk of it is at least . Royal mail will refund the original £143 to the 2 buyers and Paypal will on top refund them both the £143 as well so £286 total paid to them both AND they have have £178 worth of goods on top ! They have scammed £464 out of me in total and Paypal have supported it !!
And then I will be left to pay the rest to Paypal ..Most likely have my shop shut down and will have lost £143 worth of goods and on top I now have to pay Paypal for the same amount for the goods ?? As I am now in the red by this amount ... plus the £35 package so £178 of " lost goods" and I pay £143 for them on top of losing them just to break even  .Total = £321 I have lost plus a £35 package which totals £356 and they both scammed £464... that's a total of £820 !!!! Generated from £143 !!! in this scam and I have not had a single penny of it , It's all gone to the scammers and Paypal and is in their pockets now and I will be shut down ?? Paypal are ok with this ??!! I Have to pay out for this and Royal Mails incompetence ?
Makes you wonder if Paypal are in on the scam too does'nt it .it needs fixing NOW .

This has happened to me a LOT over the past few months as well as this week and yet Paypal is trying to make out that this is my responsibility ? Even though Royal Mail say themselves that it's THIERS and provide the needed forms etc to deal with these matters on their website or in store for THEIR mistakes ..https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/

 I do not remember seeing that this is MY responsibilty in THEIR terms and conditions or LEGAL contracts anywhere .. So why am I being held responsible for it ?

Also why are Paypal asking for Tracking when it obviously counts for nothing in your case ? And is not covered by the LEGAL terms and conditions of sending Trackable mail through Royal Mail ? Its going against it as THEY are responsible for it in their own words and claim forms provided by them for the loss of trackable items !  It is NOT my responsibilty ! I did everything exactly how i was supposed to .. Twice ! And have all documentation to proove it !

Royal Mail is responsible for this and not the seller as it is Royal Mails terms and conditions and is in the LEGAL contract you enter with them and the seller when you choose Royal Mail as the post service ..

You can now see how scammers / Rivals / Competitors or even just jealous people can put small people like myself out of business very fast .. And its happenieng a LOT through Paypal and Royal Mail ..

I have just been speaking to a guy at the Royal Mail sorting office and he is disgusted and totally agrees with me as well.. That says something.

At the very least Paypal should not take the money until the case has been decided .. Not weeks in advance like they do.. I have materials to buy and orders to make and cannot do it because Paypal and Royal Mails incompetence , Not my own .. And it will be ME that gets shut down , Not Paypal or Royal Mail .... Sounds fair right ?

Its obvious as a seller when you are being scammed as many will know and Paypal should take this into consideration i think as Royal Mail provide everything they are responsible for ..

This is the form Royal Mail provide for customers when Royal Mail have lost their packages which are supposed to be recorded and tracked and takes literally a minute to fill in .So when you get told , "It's the sellers responisbilty "etc , Its BS otherwise this link would not exist would it . https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/

Royal Mail even say right at the top ..

" If you have used a non trackable pre-paid or freepost service we’re unable to consider your claim for compensation. I’m sorry you’ve experienced a problem and would recommend that you contact the original sender of the letter or parcel. "

I would suggest STRONGLY that Paypal start making people use this if tracking has been provided , Especially more than once ! As it is in the LEGAL terms and conditions of using Royal Mail and its actually going against the agreement you make with the seller when you choose 1st class recorded delivery as your delivery option .. Paypal is a transaction service .. Not a business advisor and controller !! Its nothing to do with Paypal and they should not be making decisions on behalf of other companies in my opinion like Royal Mail and ETSY where the staff at both agree this is down to Royal Mail ! or myself without our consent !

I would bet they would not get a fraction of the claims that Paypal do as they know it wont work !

It would stop so many people being wrongly shut down and scammed by such a simple and easy scam..

Customer " Morning mr Postman , If I am not in and i get anything signed for , Could you just pop it through for me ? "

Postman " No problem Sir"

Next day or so comes.. Customer makes out they are not in .. Postman posts it anyway as promised.. I am not blaming the postman for being a decent guy at all....

Gets a replacement package sent out again by 1st class recorded..

Postman does him a favour again and pops it through the letter box..

Guy who is making out he is not in picks up his 2nd package...

Walks to computer ... Puts claim in on Paypal..

SCAM SUCCESSFUL ... Easy as 123

Just got his money back , The same amount on top from Royal Mail as he has the tracking number and proove it " didnt arrive" now..Both from myself AND Paypal in the claim !

Royal Mail check it and find its " missing ", He can do this twice with 2 packages.

Has the same value in goods too .. If it was £50 , He now has £150 and £100 of goods to sell himself = £250

I get shut down because of it. I lose money and am placed into debt by Paypal ..

Paypal get paid , Scammer gets paid. I lose everything .
EASY MONEY !!

PLEASE Make people use this claim form in the UK if tracking has been provided ..Especially more than once !

Genuine customers will happily have the case closed by Payal and do it if 2 packages have been sent tracked and will understand that its not the sellers fault and its Royal Mails.AS i have experienced this with genuine buyers before . Scammers will leave the case open and stop responding after you have prooved it to get their money back on top the 2 packages because they know Paypal will support them even though they have had the packages  ..

This is how Royal Mail and Etsy tell the customer to deal with it when tracking has been provided, Especially twice !.. Why are Paypal not doing this too ? Rather than contradicting all terms and conditions set out in the sale on another business's website that has NOTHING to do with Paypal ?

royalmailemailform(DOT)datasquirt(DOT)

They will refund the buyer in full but not the seller..Because the scammer will never fill their form in and return it because they are scamming me ! So make them do it and not the sellers as the seller will always return the form as they are legit and provided the tracking info to Paypal and can even upload a photo of the receipt with full address and postcode along with tracking number on display so Paypal and the buyer and seller can ALL see its legit , which is what they need for the compensation.100% Fail proof and will result in the right decision every time .If the seller has no tracking then refund the money from Paypal etc .... Its sooooo simple !! It requires both parties to be honest otherwise it does NOT work !! You are left with 1 honest person and a blatant scammer !! The scammer loses the money and the legit person keeps the money.....If I can work that out and solve it in 2 seconds , How have Paypal not worked this out in 16 years or whatever it's been ?

Now if tracking has been provided / tracking for 2 packages has been provided and Royal Mail have lost or posted without a signture this is surely THEIR responsibilty ..Look 😉 https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/

I think its very unfair that people can open cases against me and win them everytime because of this and results in my shops being shut down , I have had 2 ebay accounts shut down with 100% positive feedback because of this and now my Etsy shop is under threat ..

This should not be allowed .. If Etsy had the choice they would have given me my money back when they shut the case 5 days ago ...In MY favour ! And UN-BANNED MY SHOP because I had provided more than enough evidence of its tracking and Royal Mail "losing" it twice and told them I was being scammed.. ETSY looked at my evidence and receipts and I won the case because ETSY recognised it as a scam but Paypal to this day still has the money and will still refund them the money anyway ..Makes sense right ? Surely if the case was in MY favour then the money should be in MY ACCOUNT not Paypals being prepared to go back to the Customer ... Surely this is Etsy's decision and NOT Paypals as ETSY's LEGAL contract of terms and agreements has NOTHING to do with Paypal and they say I WON the case ! And Etsy told the customer to take it up with the postage company as i had provided more than enough evidence !

Of course, They put the claim in n Paypal and will do it at Royal mail so they get £70 back on a £35 purchase plus the 2 packages in their hands on top .EASY £140 in their pocket , £105 profit scammed..Supported by Paypal !

If Paypal made this applicable to cases like mine it would cut the scammers in half , Especially in the UK ..And I would NOT have been scammed .And I would not also be £140 in debt to Paypal while I am homeless and jsut sat here watching all my hard work and HONEST business going down the toilet due to Paypal making wrong decisions on behalf of other companies and ignoring any Policies or terms and conditions set out in those sales ..

Where is this going to come from when Paypal are stopping my business from being able to do anything ? And are basically going to have my shop closed as I cannot pay my bills there because Paypal are holding MY money for NO GOOD REASON and ETSY closed the case in MY favour 5 days ago !..And then what ? Paypal start sending debt collectors after ME and take ME to court over Royal Mails incompetence which they say is THIER fault and NOT mine ?? THIS is ridiculous !!! And should be illegal for Paypal to do !!

Most of them wouldnt even fill the forms in because they have 1 or 2 packages sitting there anyway and would have 2 for the price of one and sell one to a mate to get the money back . Its not rocket science .

I WANT an answer from a Paypal Rep on this ASAP ..

" UNDER UK COMMON LAW -Compensatory damages are paid to compensate the claimant for loss, injury, or harm suffered as a result of (see requirement of causation) another's breach of duty. (e.g., in a negligence claim under tort law). Expectation damages are used in contract law.UNIQ2757b9a4377c51e8-nowiki-00000004-QINU2UNIQ2757b9a4377c51e8-nowiki-00000005-QINU

common law, damages are categorized into compensatory (or actual) damages, and punitive damages. Compensatory damages are further categorized into special damages, which are economic losses such as loss of earnings ,"

"

Breach of contract duty - (ex contractu)

On a breach of contract by a defendant, a court generally awards the sum that would restore the injured party to the economic position they expected from performance of the promise or promises (known as an "expectation measure" or "benefit-of-the-bargain" measure of damages).

When it is either not possible or not desirable to award the victim in that way, a court may award money damages designed to restore the injured party to the economic position s/he occupied at the time the contract was entered (known as the "reliance measure"), or designed to prevent the breaching party from being unjustly enriched ("restitution") (see below).

Parties may contract for liquidated damages to be paid upon a breach of the contract by one of the parties. Under common law, a liquidated damages clause will not be enforced if the purpose of the term is solely to punish a breach (in this case it is termed penal damages). The clause will be enforceable if it involves a genuine attempt to quantify a loss in advance and is a good faith estimate of economic loss. Courts have ruled as excessive and invalidated damages which the parties contracted as liquidated, but which the court nonetheless found to be penal."

Also please correct me if I am wrong but in PayPal terms and conditions that have been accepted by a seller, Any third party decision cannot override a seller’s legal obligations (responsibilities) under the Law. In this case as a seller’s legal obligations to provide a refund under the Sales of Goods Act is conditional on the buyer returning the items. No return no legal obligation to refund.  

You are shutting me down and putting me into debt and this is against the law as i have proven beyond doubt that i have done everything i was supposed too in the terms and conditions of the contract of sale that was made , TWICE.. And yourself , Paypal are not following these terms and conditons or the law either .

So if you shut me down < destroy my business for no good reason and give all of my money away AND put me into debt when i have proven beyond all doubt that i have stuck to all terms and conditions set out in the LEGAL contracts set out by Paypal , Etsy and Royal Mail .And have given the evidence that Royal Mail provide the solution for their mistakes and compensate for them , NOT I , Myself as I have NOTHING to do with Royal Mail and how it is run . Who do I take to court ? Someone from Paypal I presume as THEY are the ones doing it .. Etsy and Royal Mail both agree with me that it is down to Royal Mail to compensate and not myself as it is THEIR responsibility and not mine ..So why are Paypal siding with the scammers ?

This is NOT the first time i have lost hundreds of pounds in this manner but I want to make sure this is the last time as I CANNOT afford to keep paying for Royal Mails mistakes all the time because Paypal decided that Royal Mail are not responsible for things that they lose ( EVEN THOUGH ROYAL MAIL SAY THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/ ) and ignore any terms and conditions set out by Royal MAil when they require Royal MAil tracking as proof  to protect me from scammers ?? Then when i provide it twice , Its not sufficient enough !!! That's a good one !! Maybe they have some SeaFront property in the center of London for sale too huh ?

Also I would like to hear others thoughts on this ( preferably an OFFICIAL PAYPAL REPRESENTATIVE not a " volunteer " ) as well as users as I am homeless and have been trying to start a business to get out of it and Paypal and Royal Mail are destroying my efforts every time .. I lost my ebay because of them and now my Etsy will be gone .Then what ? All with 100% Positive feedback and tracking numbers for everything i have ever sent .This will result in me being shut down for the 3rd time and final time for no reason and I will NEVER be able to do business again as I will be banned from selling like both ebays accounts at 100% positive feedback because of ROYAL MAILS MISTAKES !!!! for the rest of my life ..

It is now happeneing through ETSY.

I even have ones signed for and yet Paypal still gave the buyer back the money .Even though they had signed for the package !

Why does Paypal support and favour scammers over honest people trying to make a living so much  and enjoy putting them out of business ? Or in my case trying get out of being homeless and keeping me there ! It makes no sense to me at all.

Paypal ..FIX IT PLEASE ! You are destroying the business's and lives of good honest people in favour of scammers.... Many thanks

[kj8710]

This is the thing, A lot of people are not honest .
I always send out replacements if anything goes missing and always end up giving a refund but this is out of control .Royal Mail are not losing multiple packages to the same address .If they are then again , It's THEIR responsibility not mine if its sent 1st class recorded tracked and signed for .Surely Iit is a PAID service and is under legal contract of terms and conditions in which THEY are reponsible

A lot of people will get/who do get the package without a signature will try it on and say it never arrived, A replacement will always be sent by myself and be sent out again 1st class recorded .

the 2nd one gets posted with no signature again as they have a " friendly postman" who is trying to save them trouble going to collect it from the sorting office .Royal Mail are not losing multiple packages to the same address ...

Customer then puts a claim in on Paypal ..

The customer now has in my eg , 2 x goods of £35 plus postage costs and a refund from Paypal ..

They can then go to Royal mail and claim full money back with their proof of purchase on Paypal ..

They now have £70 plus 2 packages worth £35 ( £140 TOTAL ) because of Royal Mail ..

My Paypal is now £35 in the red just from this case ( I have another one trying it on too at £108 on top of this , Another potential £432 they will end up with while I get nothing but banned ) So £140 in the red and I cannot do anything about my current orders which will then lead to even more cases and me being shut down as i have no access to MY money .

Thats a total of £572 for packages only worth £143 .Whos pocket is this coming out of exactly ? That's right mine .Or the main bulk of it is at least . Royal mail will refund the original £143 to the 2 buyers and Paypal will on top refund them both the £143 as well so £286 total paid to them both AND they have have £178 worth of goods on top ! They have scammed £464 out of me in total and Paypal have supported it !!
And then I will be left to pay the rest to Paypal ..Most likely have my shop shut down and will have lost £143 worth of goods and on top I now have to pay Paypal for the same amount for the goods ?? As I am now in the red by this amount ... plus the £35 package so £178 of " lost goods" and I pay £143 for them on top of losing them just to break even  .Total = £321 I have lost plus a £35 package which totals £356 and they both scammed £464... that's a total of £820 !!!! Generated from £143 !!! in this scam and I have not had a single penny of it , It's all gone to the scammers and Paypal and is in their pockets now and I will be shut down ?? Paypal are ok with this ??!! I Have to pay out for this and Royal Mails incompetence ?
Makes you wonder if Paypal are in on the scam too does'nt it .it needs fixing NOW .

This has happened to me a LOT over the past few months as well as this week and yet Paypal is trying to make out that this is my responsibility ? Even though Royal Mail say themselves that it's THIERS and provide the needed forms etc to deal with these matters on their website or in store for THEIR mistakes ..https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/

 I do not remember seeing that this is MY responsibilty in THEIR terms and conditions or LEGAL contracts anywhere .. So why am I being held responsible for it ?

Also why are Paypal asking for Tracking when it obviously counts for nothing in your case ? And is not covered by the LEGAL terms and conditions of sending Trackable mail through Royal Mail ? Its going against it as THEY are responsible for it in their own words and claim forms provided by them for the loss of trackable items !  It is NOT my responsibilty ! I did everything exactly how i was supposed to .. Twice ! And have all documentation to proove it !

Royal Mail is responsible for this and not the seller as it is Royal Mails terms and conditions and is in the LEGAL contract you enter with them and the seller when you choose Royal Mail as the post service ..

You can now see how scammers / Rivals / Competitors or even just jealous people can put small people like myself out of business very fast .. And its happenieng a LOT through Paypal and Royal Mail ..

I have just been speaking to a guy at the Royal Mail sorting office and he is disgusted and totally agrees with me as well.. That says something.

At the very least Paypal should not take the money until the case has been decided .. Not weeks in advance like they do.. I have materials to buy and orders to make and cannot do it because Paypal and Royal Mails incompetence , Not my own .. And it will be ME that gets shut down , Not Paypal or Royal Mail .... Sounds fair right ?

Its obvious as a seller when you are being scammed as many will know and Paypal should take this into consideration i think as Royal Mail provide everything they are responsible for ..

This is the form Royal Mail provide for customers when Royal Mail have lost their packages which are supposed to be recorded and tracked and takes literally a minute to fill in .So when you get told , "It's the sellers responisbilty "etc , Its BS otherwise this link would not exist would it . https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/

Royal Mail even say right at the top ..

" If you have used a non trackable pre-paid or freepost service we’re unable to consider your claim for compensation. I’m sorry you’ve experienced a problem and would recommend that you contact the original sender of the letter or parcel. "

I would suggest STRONGLY that Paypal start making people use this if tracking has been provided , Especially more than once ! As it is in the LEGAL terms and conditions of using Royal Mail and its actually going against the agreement you make with the seller when you choose 1st class recorded delivery as your delivery option .. Paypal is a transaction service .. Not a business advisor and controller !! Its nothing to do with Paypal and they should not be making decisions on behalf of other companies in my opinion like Royal Mail and ETSY where the staff at both agree this is down to Royal Mail ! or myself without our consent !

I would bet they would not get a fraction of the claims that Paypal do as they know it wont work !

It would stop so many people being wrongly shut down and scammed by such a simple and easy scam..

Customer " Morning mr Postman , If I am not in and i get anything signed for , Could you just pop it through for me ? "

Postman " No problem Sir"

Next day or so comes.. Customer makes out they are not in .. Postman posts it anyway as promised.. I am not blaming the postman for being a decent guy at all....

Gets a replacement package sent out again by 1st class recorded..

Postman does him a favour again and pops it through the letter box..

Guy who is making out he is not in picks up his 2nd package...

Walks to computer ... Puts claim in on Paypal..

SCAM SUCCESSFUL ... Easy as 123

Just got his money back , The same amount on top from Royal Mail as he has the tracking number and proove it " didnt arrive" now..Both from myself AND Paypal in the claim !

Royal Mail check it and find its " missing ", He can do this twice with 2 packages.

Has the same value in goods too .. If it was £50 , He now has £150 and £100 of goods to sell himself = £250

I get shut down because of it. I lose money and am placed into debt by Paypal ..

Paypal get paid , Scammer gets paid. I lose everything .
EASY MONEY !!

PLEASE Make people use this claim form in the UK if tracking has been provided ..Especially more than once !

Genuine customers will happily have the case closed by Payal and do it if 2 packages have been sent tracked and will understand that its not the sellers fault and its Royal Mails.AS i have experienced this with genuine buyers before . Scammers will leave the case open and stop responding after you have prooved it to get their money back on top the 2 packages because they know Paypal will support them even though they have had the packages  ..

This is how Royal Mail and Etsy tell the customer to deal with it when tracking has been provided, Especially twice !.. Why are Paypal not doing this too ? Rather than contradicting all terms and conditions set out in the sale on another business's website that has NOTHING to do with Paypal ?

royalmailemailform(DOT)datasquirt(DOT)

They will refund the buyer in full but not the seller..Because the scammer will never fill their form in and return it because they are scamming me ! So make them do it and not the sellers as the seller will always return the form as they are legit and provided the tracking info to Paypal and can even upload a photo of the receipt with full address and postcode along with tracking number on display so Paypal and the buyer and seller can ALL see its legit , which is what they need for the compensation.100% Fail proof and will result in the right decision every time .If the seller has no tracking then refund the money from Paypal etc .... Its sooooo simple !! It requires both parties to be honest otherwise it does NOT work !! You are left with 1 honest person and a blatant scammer !! The scammer loses the money and the legit person keeps the money.....If I can work that out and solve it in 2 seconds , How have Paypal not worked this out in 16 years or whatever it's been ?

Now if tracking has been provided / tracking for 2 packages has been provided and Royal Mail have lost or posted without a signture this is surely THEIR responsibilty ..Look 😉 https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/

I think its very unfair that people can open cases against me and win them everytime because of this and results in my shops being shut down , I have had 2 ebay accounts shut down with 100% positive feedback because of this and now my Etsy shop is under threat ..

This should not be allowed .. If Etsy had the choice they would have given me my money back when they shut the case 5 days ago ...In MY favour ! And UN-BANNED MY SHOP because I had provided more than enough evidence of its tracking and Royal Mail "losing" it twice and told them I was being scammed.. ETSY looked at my evidence and receipts and I won the case because ETSY recognised it as a scam but Paypal to this day still has the money and will still refund them the money anyway ..Makes sense right ? Surely if the case was in MY favour then the money should be in MY ACCOUNT not Paypals being prepared to go back to the Customer ... Surely this is Etsy's decision and NOT Paypals as ETSY's LEGAL contract of terms and agreements has NOTHING to do with Paypal and they say I WON the case ! And Etsy told the customer to take it up with the postage company as i had provided more than enough evidence !

Of course, They put the claim in n Paypal and will do it at Royal mail so they get £70 back on a £35 purchase plus the 2 packages in their hands on top .EASY £140 in their pocket , £105 profit scammed..Supported by Paypal !

If Paypal made this applicable to cases like mine it would cut the scammers in half , Especially in the UK ..And I would NOT have been scammed .And I would not also be £140 in debt to Paypal while I am homeless and jsut sat here watching all my hard work and HONEST business going down the toilet due to Paypal making wrong decisions on behalf of other companies and ignoring any Policies or terms and conditions set out in those sales ..

Where is this going to come from when Paypal are stopping my business from being able to do anything ? And are basically going to have my shop closed as I cannot pay my bills there because Paypal are holding MY money for NO GOOD REASON and ETSY closed the case in MY favour 5 days ago !..And then what ? Paypal start sending debt collectors after ME and take ME to court over Royal Mails incompetence which they say is THIER fault and NOT mine ?? THIS is ridiculous !!! And should be illegal for Paypal to do !!

Most of them wouldnt even fill the forms in because they have 1 or 2 packages sitting there anyway and would have 2 for the price of one and sell one to a mate to get the money back . Its not rocket science .

I WANT an answer from a Paypal Rep on this ASAP ..

" UNDER UK COMMON LAW -Compensatory damages are paid to compensate the claimant for loss, injury, or harm suffered as a result of (see requirement of causation) another's breach of duty. (e.g., in a negligence claim under tort law). Expectation damages are used in contract law.UNIQ2757b9a4377c51e8-nowiki-00000004-QINU2UNIQ2757b9a4377c51e8-nowiki-00000005-QINU

common law, damages are categorized into compensatory (or actual) damages, and punitive damages. Compensatory damages are further categorized into special damages, which are economic losses such as loss of earnings ,"

"

Breach of contract duty - (ex contractu)

On a breach of contract by a defendant, a court generally awards the sum that would restore the injured party to the economic position they expected from performance of the promise or promises (known as an "expectation measure" or "benefit-of-the-bargain" measure of damages).

When it is either not possible or not desirable to award the victim in that way, a court may award money damages designed to restore the injured party to the economic position s/he occupied at the time the contract was entered (known as the "reliance measure"), or designed to prevent the breaching party from being unjustly enriched ("restitution") (see below).

Parties may contract for liquidated damages to be paid upon a breach of the contract by one of the parties. Under common law, a liquidated damages clause will not be enforced if the purpose of the term is solely to punish a breach (in this case it is termed penal damages). The clause will be enforceable if it involves a genuine attempt to quantify a loss in advance and is a good faith estimate of economic loss. Courts have ruled as excessive and invalidated damages which the parties contracted as liquidated, but which the court nonetheless found to be penal."

Also please correct me if I am wrong but in PayPal terms and conditions that have been accepted by a seller, Any third party decision cannot override a seller’s legal obligations (responsibilities) under the Law. In this case as a seller’s legal obligations to provide a refund under the Sales of Goods Act is conditional on the buyer returning the items. No return no legal obligation to refund.  

You are shutting me down and putting me into debt and this is against the law as i have proven beyond doubt that i have done everything i was supposed too in the terms and conditions of the contract of sale that was made , TWICE.. And yourself , Paypal are not following these terms and conditons or the law either .

So if you shut me down < destroy my business for no good reason and give all of my money away AND put me into debt when i have proven beyond all doubt that i have stuck to all terms and conditions set out in the LEGAL contracts set out by Paypal , Etsy and Royal Mail .And have given the evidence that Royal Mail provide the solution for their mistakes and compensate for them , NOT I , Myself as I have NOTHING to do with Royal Mail and how it is run . Who do I take to court ? Someone from Paypal I presume as THEY are the ones doing it .. Etsy and Royal Mail both agree with me that it is down to Royal Mail to compensate and not myself as it is THEIR responsibility and not mine ..So why are Paypal siding with the scammers ?

This is NOT the first time i have lost hundreds of pounds in this manner but I want to make sure this is the last time as I CANNOT afford to keep paying for Royal Mails mistakes all the time because Paypal decided that Royal Mail are not responsible for things that they lose ( EVEN THOUGH ROYAL MAIL SAY THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/ ) and ignore any terms and conditions set out by Royal MAil when they require Royal MAil tracking as proof  to protect me from scammers ?? Then when i provide it twice , Its not sufficient enough !!! That's a good one !! Maybe they have some SeaFront property in the center of London for sale too huh ?

Also I would like to hear others thoughts on this ( preferably an OFFICIAL PAYPAL REPRESENTATIVE not a " volunteer " ) as well as users as I am homeless and have been trying to start a business to get out of it and Paypal and Royal Mail are destroying my efforts every time .. I lost my ebay because of them and now my Etsy will be gone .Then what ? All with 100% Positive feedback and tracking numbers for everything i have ever sent .This will result in me being shut down for the 3rd time and final time for no reason and I will NEVER be able to do business again as I will be banned from selling like both ebays accounts at 100% positive feedback because of ROYAL MAILS MISTAKES !!!! for the rest of my life ..

It is now happeneing through ETSY.

I even have ones signed for and yet Paypal still gave the buyer back the money .Even though they had signed for the package !

Why does Paypal support and favour scammers over honest people trying to make a living so much  and enjoy putting them out of business ? Or in my case trying get out of being homeless and keeping me there ! It makes no sense to me at all.

Paypal ..FIX IT PLEASE ! You are destroying the business's and lives of good honest people in favour of scammers.... Many thanks

[kj8710]

24 hours and no answer from a Paypal Rep ... Why Am I not surprised...

I would appreciate an answer before I am shut down and banned forever please..... Thank you
Every other post is answered within 24 hours and Paypal wont answer me anywhere else .......

Because they know this is SO wrong more than likely ....

When the customer pays for Royal MAil and you both AGREE ON CONTRACT and terms and conditions of the sale when you have to click " ACCEPT " then they have agreed to it that Royal Mail will be the carrier and that it can take up to 28 days to deliver and ROYAL MAIL provide all claim forms if THEY lose it as you both agree that they will be the responsible party to carry the package !... It is right here --- https://royalmailemailform.datasquirt.co.uk/, Not to me and I am not paid to deliver it under my reponsibility.. They pay for a PAID service from Royal Mail for that , I just do it on their behalf with their money ...

The customer pays Royal Mail .. NOT me as I do not deliver the package .. The money goes in Royal Mails till and thier bank account , Not mine and the contract and agreement by both parties is to use Royal Mail which is then under Royal Mails responsibilty once it is in their hands , Which the customer pays for , Not myself  ..... They could have used another service if they had wanted other than Royal Mail .... it was THEIR choice.....And Royal have everything in place in case THEY mess it up so the customer is covered and the seller is not **bleep** over like Paypal will do to the seller for NO GOOD REASON !

If Royal MAil do lose packages , Do you know what they do .. They reimburse the seller for the costs of materials .. and the buyer in full amount paid ..
Paypal **bleep** the seller over.. Give the buyer/scammer the money back , Place the seller into debt and put marks agisnt the sellers account .. How is this even allowed when Royal Mail have done all of the work to stop this happeneing and both parties have entered a legal contract where the buyer agreed to it before purchase that Royal MAil would be the responsible handler of the package and they mess up it is down to them ?

Even though I ALWAYS send a replacement package .. You KNOW its a scam when 2 recorded items to the same address go " Missing " .. It's TRACKED.. The Postman is NOT taking it as its too obvious he has as its tracked and they know what postman had it on what delivery round !! He will get caught and fired right away !

 This is the biggest and easiest scam going and I bet small sellers like myself are being scammed for tens of thousands daily and going out of business all the time , You only have to do a google search to see I am right about this and how many people Paypal have actually shut down and destroyed in supprt of scammers ... There was £800 generated out of this scam on me this time and I have had it a few times before .. How much is Paypal supporting this going on daily around the world etc.. Scamming millions at small sellers expense and livleyhoods shutting people down for NO GOOD REASON ..

 Maybe ... If you made multi BILLION pound companies pay for their own mistakes , They might stop making them . Instead of holding others responsible for it and wrecking their lives potentially and business's ...
I mean , That IS what both parties agree too on the legal contract of sale when they accepted it !

[kernowlass]

This is a user to user forum and not paypal customer services.

There are mods that post on here but they won't discuss individual accounts or problems, they will tell you to contact customer services.

[kj8710]

Thank you for the reply Kernowlass .

Customer service ignore me everytime , That's the reason I came here..

I presumed Paypal owned this forum and would have mods thats actually worked for them to deal with customers on here..

 I mean , That's pretty much what 99.9 % of business's forums are there for ..

So let me get this right . Paypal redirected me here to find solutions to my problem, I logged in with my Paypal account but this is nothing to do with Paypal or its employees and there is noone actually from Paypal to look at and solve these problems that they told me to come here and find the solution for ...

That makes no sense what so ever ? Sounds like they are just giving people the run around rather than giving solutions ..

Is there a " customer service " I can contact that will actually discuss this and provide a solution for its customers do you know ?

This company Paypal are a joke ...

I tried this when the ebay account was shut , Told them what was happening and how it was happening .. They did not care one bit , I said if they did not fix it their " computer system" would shut me down within a week.. They almost laughed at me .. A week later exactly what I said had happened and I was banned from selling with 100% positive feedback .. Even though I warned both Paypal and Ebay ... Neither cared and still banned me for no reason ..Seemed all they cared about was keeping the transaction fee regardless if i was being scammed or not ..

When i click " Contact us " at the bottom of Paypal .. All I get is this .

"

Sorry,

that page doesn't exist."

[kj8710]

When I finally get around to customer service .. What good is this when I am being scammed right now ?

"We'll do our best to provide you with an answer or resolution to your complaint within 4 weeks. This timeframe may be extended to 8 weeks to accommodate our investigation. If we need to extend this timeframe, we'll notify you after 4 weeks and outline the investigation to date."

Honestly ..... I do NOT have 4 weeks or 8 weeks.. I will be lucky if I have 4 days .....

[kernowlass]

Click on the words "Contact" at the bottom of your paypal account summary > click on the "call us" option on the left (fees "may" apply so check the cost with your phone tariff first, as you sometimes have to wait a while to connect).

When you get through don't select any options just hang on till you get transfered to an agent or say the word "agent".

OR have you considered contacting Customer Service via Facebook or Twitter?

It's: https://www.facebook.com/PayPalUK and @AskPayPal for Twitter.

[kj8710]

Thank you for the help Kernowlass .

I have sent them a mail and asked them to come and read this post as their form is not big enough to explain the problem and hopefully they will get back to me within 24-48 hours as promised ..
 

Hopefully they will provide a solution like I have suggested on here and to them about the Royal Mail form as it makes much more sense and will cut off so many scammers in the UK abusing Royal Mail ..

And stop holding normal people responisble and making them pay for the mistakes of a multi billion pound business which they are under legal contract for the handling of the packages ..

[kj8710]

So.. Paypal got back to me within 24-48 hours as promised..

Automated service so again .. Nobody is even there to respond ..

Here is the message ..

What a joke !!

"We’ve received your Complaint Form.

Your complaint has been assigned to one of our Complaints Management Specialists, who will investigate your complaint and respond to you as soon as possible. (All complaints are dealt with in the order they’re received).

We will try to provide you with an answer or resolution to your complaint within 4 weeks. However, the timeframe may be extended to 8 weeks to accommodate our investigation. If we need to extend the investigation, we will notify you after 4 weeks and outline the investigation up to that date.

Yours sincerely,

The Complaints Management Team

PayPal, an eBay Company"

"An eBay company" ...... Says it all really.. biggest scam site on the planet responsible for shutting 1000s of legitimate business's down with the help of scammers ... 

A little research goes a LONG way - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ebay+destroyed+my+business&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=8tzkVJuK...

Paypal destroy an 8 year old business in 1 day !! http://www.aboutpaypal.org/paypal-destroyed-business-8-years-day/

[kj8710]

THIS has been done to me 3 times but in a slightly different manner, Through the ebay system where they give you positive feedback but mark everything 1 star .. Like 1 or 2 should even be an option if its out of 5 and is positive ... 1-2 is negative - 3 is neutrel and 4-5 is positive right ....And managed to get refunds too somehow. by saying it didnt turn up to paypal even though i had a signature on RM's tracking site so I really do not know how they did that . CC chargebacks I can only think is the way to do it maybe ?
Myself , My partner and my mothers account ...By a rival seller .. We know who they are and ebay / Paypal did not care when we told them and showed them evidence of online threats that it would be done to us if we did NOT stop selling ..

It works the same .. All 5 of the guys who did it to us were all on a Facebook group boasting how they had done it to us publicly .. Again .. Paypal and eBay did not want to know ..

" How to get someone's PAY PAL account frozen,and get them forever blocked from ebay, and e-commerce by default is easy. Simply get 3 friends to buy items from them, then file a SNAD disputes after getting the items. All you need is 4 disputes total.

Be sure it is within the same month. In three days their PayPal account will be frozen indefinately if they are not a multi thousand pound a month power seller gross > £25,000 a month.

Then they block the account by name, address, ssn, bank account, ebay account, business name, IP, email address and credit cards, and they cannot buy with any credit cards from any merchant such as Axiz that takes credit cards with paypal's pay-flow merchant account. Also they send a very nasty e-mail to all of their previous buyers that encourages more disputes and ruins your reputation.

Please do not do this to anyone undeserving. Still feel safe selling on ebay and using paypal? "

 Source-  http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/how-easy-ruin-ebay-seller-s-business-52366.html

[nunodasilva]

Hello,

Unfortunately you will be on your own, Paypal did the same to me.

I sold a macbook pro and the fraudster as that is what I can only call him, requested a reverse payment. I have proof of postage, I have the email stating that he bought the item from me but Paypal doesnt want to know. Of course they refunded him, so he has £975 from me PLUS my Laptop and Paypal states because it was a personal sale I'm not covered despite the fact that it is an obvious fraud. I sent Paypla the ploce case number but once again they dont want to know. It is shocking but Paypla doesn't obviously take issues of fraud seriously and let them get away with theft literally. I for one will not be sing Paypal and will tell anyone to stay away from this people.