Fraud Alert buyer "Jim Rapson" wants to buy your car via PayPal

[Grumpybob]

I recently advertised my daugthers car for sale on GumTree and was contacted by text asking if it was still for sale. I replied it was and the guy "Jim Rapson" gave me a story that he was working off shore and wanted to buy it for his graduate son.

Don't be taken in this is a scam as far as i can see as others have posted similar stories in the Paypal community. I didn't part with the car but if you do let them collect it others say they put a stop on the payment and then they say they never recived it from the carrier. if you get it back it seems they will have stripped it down of all its bits.

Why isn't payPal and Gumtree doing something about these scams?

Here is the way it unfolds so don't be taken in!

There are a number of scams from this person listed on PayPal communities and I think Gumtree and PayPal should do all they can to stop this happening and work with police to catch these people.

Luckily I found out before I parted with the car. but the fraud is very "believable" and I am worried about advertising anything further on Gumtree and using PayPal as a result of this expierence!

Here are the emails and text I received from "Jim Rapton":

Thank you for the mail, All Sounds good...I understand the condition as you described and i will like to proceed with the payment so please kindly get back to me with your PayPal account email address so that i can proceed with the payment...Hope to to hearing from you soon.

Many thanks

Jim

 
> Thanks a lot for the email. Am buying it for my son who just graduated
> ontop of his class in University of Nottingham,he studied Medicine and
> Psychology (Physiology),am so proud of him . I want it as a surprise
> package to appreciate him towards his achievement and to be delivered
> before my arrival .
>
> I work with Cygnus Gas Field and we are presently offshore at North
> Sea,United Kingdom in the Cygnus project,. We do not have access to
> phone at the moment,which is why I contacted you with internet
> messaging facility. Where is it located at the moment? Does it have
> any history I should be aware of? and MOT/TAX if you don't mind my
> asking.I am already in talks with the courier that will handle the
> pick-up and delivery after payment.
>
> As regards the payment, I can pay you through PayPal account,using
> PPal wire transfer service, I will need your PayPal email account
> details. If you do not have, you can set up a PayPal account proper at
> www.paypal and I will make the payment through PayPal, this way,
> all I will need is your PayPal email address.Also if you are not
> comfortable with that I can also paying through direct bank
> deposit,using PPal instant bank wire transfer service. I will be needing the details below..
>
> 1) Your PayPal Email Address or send me an invoice
> 2) Your picked Up Location Address?
>
>
>
> Hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Many Thanks and reply ASAP...
>
> Happy New Year!!!
>
> Jim
>

I first received a Text to my phone number saying: "Good morning. do you have your car advert listed on "Gumtree" still available for sale? Pls kindly reply Knows @ gmail .com with your firm price. thanks Jim"

[kernowlass]

Firstly there is no seller protection on paypal for motor vehicles so that is not really a good way to accept payment for a car.

Secondly the scam has NOTHING to do with your car, they are not interested in your car, the scam works this way >>

You get a FAKE email that "looks" as though it is from paypal but it is not. The email makes it look as if you have been paid + extra to pay the "shipping agent" for them via western union or moneygram.

The so called paypal email states that the paypal money will be released into your paypal account the minute you send them the reference number of the western union payment once paid.

The scam is that they want that western union / moneygram payment...........there is no money to be released in your paypal account and they couldn't care less about your car.

The reason paypal can do nothing about it is because NOTHING is done using the paypal site, no money is sent to you via paypal and any emails you receive are equally not from paypal.

[Grumpybob]

Thanks for the explination, but surely if they are "passing them selves off" as PayPal with a fake email that looks like it originated from PayPal.. Then PayPal should be doing all they can to help stop the scam and catch the culprits? So what is Pay Pal doing about this?

Gra'massy!

[kernowlass]

What can they do??

Its probably originates from a scammer in Nigeria and as they are NOT using paypals site there is not a lot paypal can do.

If you have someone pretending to be from the gas board knock on your door and end up being burgled would you expect the gas board to do something about it?

[Grumpybob]

Yes I would expect the Gas Board to do something about that in those circumstances and they do have initiatives to alert folk to how to check ID.

You see I know that the "Gas Board" and PayPal will have a lot more resources than I do to mount a longer term initiative to stop crime and engage with the various authorities about these issues.   Collation of intelligence by logging crimes and attempted crimes, and having dedicated fraud teams working on problems like this for its customers would be an appropriate start.

Not just trying to tidy up frauds after the event but actively frustrating them before they occur would be treating their customers fairly.

But then I'm just an old cynical retired professional investigator.

It’s too easy to say PayPal aren't involved, when their identity is being used to scam other people. Of course they are involved, and what are they doing about it?     Nothing apparently! relying on us to post warnings and alerts?

Guess we are all on our own then, and have to be vigilant to avoid being scammed without any help from PayPal .. Pity because PayPal aren't a charity are they. And they make millions from their customers’ transactions, don't they? So how much do they spend on fraud prevention and protection to their customers?

Shouldn't there be a sensible balance between making their profit and protecting their clients?

Shouldn't an official PayPal representative be reassuring me/us they are doing all they can to "alert us" and "protect us" from these habitual criminals attempts to rob us blind?

There's no overt warning on the PayPal site that the service is unsuitable for selling cars, or certain other items, shouldn't there be some "warnings"?

And you have to dig through their web pages to report a fraud, but there's no process for reporting an attempted fraud where their own PayPal identity has been used illegally to perpetrate it!

So yes, I do think they should do more or at least something and I'll be reporting it to some equally uninterested police officers later today too, and asking them why this sort of crime is being viewed as apparently "unavoidable".

Don't you see that with the attitude you display its aiding the scammers?

But thanks for your info, its illuminating..

[kernowlass]

Paypal do warn you ..........its called reading up on buyer protection.

Not sure why you would even think of accepting paypal for a motor vehicle when they ADVISE AGAINST IT.....may be your investigative skills did not take you that far??

and what are they doing about it?     Nothing apparently! relying on us to post warnings and alerts?

Maybe they are warning you >>

1. On the user agreement.

2. On buyer protection links.

3. On safety links.

4. On safety emails.

5. On the community forums.

5. In the help section.

I could go on but you get the gist........not sure what else they can do apart from sit in your house and vet your emails.

There's no overt warning on the PayPal site that the service is unsuitable for selling cars, or certain other items, shouldn't there be some "warnings"?

 There are plenty of warnings as per above, not sure what they can do if you choose not to READ THEM. 

Don't you see that with the attitude you display its aiding the scammers?

i have saved MORE folks than I can remember from being scammed by GIVING UP MY OWN TIME and helping on this board VOLUNTARILY . How many have you saved?? May be MY attitude in giving up my time is a lot better than yours.

I can only give you the FACTS and paypal cannot DO anything actively once you have been scammed OR stop a scammer emailing you. If you don't like those FACTS then there is not a lot I can do about it.

Good bye. 

[Grumpybob]

There are certain "key issues" or "key facts" that we should all be made aware of in financial services and the potential for fraud like this is an important issue. This fraud isn’t made clear and it isn’t explained.

This potential for this fraud was not made clear until you (a volunteer) explained it on this forum!

Warnings by Pay Pal should not be general in nature and buried in "the small print" of conditions, that's unfair!

There should be an evolving process of raising awareness of immediate or repeat criminal intent or threat to defraud its clients. Not simply waivers and disclaimers tucked away in T&C's that protect no one other than PayPal.

And I shouldn’t be arguing with you, a clear voluntary "devotee" of PayPal, whose opinion may be better informed, but frankly no more important than mine.

In the absence of a proper complaints representative from PayPal who frankly should be trained to respond to folk in a professional and rational manner, and who should be bound by financial compliance rather than being an undying “faithful follower”. It’s no service at all.

In the end I was lucky I didn’t lose any money, but I really think PayPal should be doing more officially on this and in a better more professional manner, than letting a forum moderator turn it into a little forum “drama”..

But I guess its easy for them to do nothing about it and let you and me bicker, when they are laughing all the way to their “bank”.

PayPal Customer support and complaint resolution? Looks like its on a “on a shoestring” when it should be a regulated process!

Thanks for your help.

[PayPal_david]

Hi Grumpybob,

I can fully understand your confusion regarding this. I will forward your feedback to the relevant teams in order to see if we can provide more information on this through the website in future.

In regards to that, there are a few different areas where more information can be found through the PayPal website. When you opened your account, you would have accepted our user agreement where all of the information is outlined. If you also click the Security link at the bottom of your PayPal account, that also gives you more information about our Buyer/Seller Protection Policies and what you are/aren't covered for on your account.

In regards to contacting us and our complaints procedures. You can contact us at any stage through the Contact Us icon at the bottom of any PayPal webpage. When you go there, you also have an option to make a formal complaint against PayPal also so the options are there. You also do have the option to send a complaint via post but the timeframe for responses is 4-8 weeks for a response via postal complaint.

I hope this information helps.

David.