Received counterfeit goods. Once again Paypal break their promise to refund the money!

[jimmyt10]

Apologies, this is a long one.  I have been through a most frustrating ordeal with paypal this past couple of weeks. Once again they have wormed their way out of paying a refund for counterfeit goods i received, even though they advertise their buyer protection promise all over their site.  To cut a long story short i purchased a designer watch and watch case through a seller which was originally advertised on ebay but the seller claimed it was generating too many messages so it was withdrawn from sale.  I have basically been conned. the sellers Story was that they had a lot of misfortune lately, they had been given The items but knew nothing about them, although they told me they had had the watch verified by a jeweler who said it was worth a lot of money. The seller claimed the box alone would sell for over 300. So, i offered 600 all in and this was accepted and i paid via paypal.  When the watch arrived the seller stopped answering my emails. I realised the watch was counterfeit and tried to contact the seller several timess. I felt bad as the seller had mentioned having had a close friend recently died and that they were selling the watch to fund a holiday. So i submitted a partial refund request for £300 thinking i could  soften the blow and could just selll the case myself to recover my other £300 and save the seller any undue hassle.  However, the following day i discovered the case was also counterfeit and began to suspect i had been setup The sellers claims about having the items authenticity verified at a jeweler's was now obviously a lie so i began suspecting all her stories as it did seem like i was being emotionaly black mailed.  I phoned payplan and spoke to a kind lady who clearly assured me counterfeit goods transactions receive serious attention and a full refund would be returned. Either from the seller or paypal themselves.  So i let it be for a couple days and telephoned paypal to get an update. I was bemused and horrified to lesrn that they had closed the case because the seller had paid the partial refund.  I spent the next two days trying to explain that paypal had already given their word that a total refund would be supplied. I had been duped into a partial refund request by clever guilt trip storiies and being givrn False informatioon aboit the value of the case.  Paypal totally changed their tune at this point and just started saying there Was nothing more they could do.  I wasnt about to just walk away £300 down for basically not requesting a full refund lnitially through being overly kind. So i persisted in calling them until they agred to let me appeal the decision.  So, i spent the whole day compiling the contenent for my apeal. I wrote a full Report copied in the emails i sent and received from the seller. Took photos of thd watch and proved it was fake. Printed off websites to support my points. Then i log into the dispute centre and found i could only upload image files. So i had to scan, convert save websites, then get it all into photoshop so i could save the dats as jps.  I just finished doing this after midnigh tonight. Only to log in to the resolution centre and find out the appeal has been closed and they are unwilling to refund the rest of my money The person i spoke to on the phone who agreed to let me appeal their decisioon told me paypal would be in touch when they were ready for my evidence, i didn't hear from them so i thought id be proactive and get the files ready. I hardly expected they would skip the information gathering stage and just close the appeal without bothering to look into it. I am totally disgusted with the way i have been treated. I am wondering what action to take next. I have alreaddy complained but had no response.  Any ideas anybody? I am going to report it to trading standards. Probably report the seller to the police. I work in the media industry so ill put the story about. See if i can get it on Watchdog.  But none of these will get my money back. Perhaps i should sue them for the balance they promised to pay? And all the time i have spent chasing them and writing to them... Feedback would be appreciated.  Thanks for reading.!

[jingkayjandayan]

hi, looks like we're sharing the same story. i esacalted my claim to paypal after receiving a counterfeit product(louis vuitton bag). looks like paypal asking me more actions rather than from the seller. currently they're asking me a documentation that could support that item recieved is actually counterfeit, so i did asked few retailers e.g johns lewis, harvey nichols, radley but none of them are willing to get involved for obvious reason. like the product i'm going to asked weither authentic or not is not theirs so obviously how can they tell from genuine to not genuine? i phoned up louis vuitton if they could help me in this ordeal, but unfortunately they can't give anything in writing. paypal was informed but the only thing they can say is, 'i'm sorry, you need  to provide that document.' i really don't know what to say, they're giving me a dead end scenario. no wonder there's so many counterfeit item going round.

[jingkayjandayan]

i've open a dispute thru paypal about a counterfeit product bought from ebay. looks like paypal asked more actions from the buyer(victim) rather than from the seller(counterfeiter). at the moment they asked me to provide a document to prove that the item(louis vuitton bag) is counterfeit. from organisations, departments, like john lewis. so, i took a day off just to sort things out(i'll do anything just to have my money back). went to few department stores like john lewis, harvey nicholls, radley, karen millen to provide me a documentation, but none of them wants to get involve for obvious reason.  it's not their product obviously they can't tell if it's genuine or not. did contact louis vuitton as well, i can take the bag to any of their stores and identify if it's authentic or not but cannot put into writing as their corporate policy. so, i phoned up paypal and informed them that it's impossible for me to provide a documentation. but the respond i get, "i'm sorry, but the only way we can help is for you to provide a documentation." paypal is giving me a dead-end scenario. no wonder there are so many counterfeiters and counterfeit products going round in the public. very poor costumer service(first time i have encountered), very unhelpful. i'm considering legal advice againts paypal.

[jingkayjandayan]

i escalated a claim to dispute for item received is not as described. item i won was posted on ebay as genuine louis vuitton palermo gm bag, when i received the item it is not what it looks on the photos and even a counterfeit louis vuitton item. paypal asked me to provide a documentation that identifies the item as not authentic document from an unbiased, third-party, such as a dealer, appraiser, or another individual or organization that is qualified in the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which clearly identifies the item as not authentic. so i took a day-off yesterday and went to several department stores e.g john lewis, harvey nicholls, radley, karen millen but none of them wanted to get involved. they said, the item is not theirs so obviously they can't tell wheither it's authentic or not. i phoned up louis vuitton, they said i can take it to any of their stores to identify the product if it's authentic or not but cannot put it in writing as a corporate policy. so, i phone up paypal about this but insisted me to provide the document and there's nothing they can do. spoke different  paypal agent, all are very unhelpful. they're giving me a dead-end scenario. contacted seller and informed him that the item he sent is counterfeit, even left a negative feedback in which seller never contested. which proved that the seller is aware that item he posted is counterfeit.  wondering why paypal is really stressing the buyers to provide documentation and never bother to asked the seller to provide a documentation to support their item they posted as genuine. please advice where's my claim heading. i paid significant amount of money for something illegal.

[PayPal_AdrianO]

Hey guys,

Jimmyt10, as you requested a partial refund at the time of opening the case and the seller issued you with the partial refund then the case was closed correctly. If you are unhappy with the decision then you can try asking Trading Standards for further advice.

Jingkayjandayan, if you are having difficulty in obtaining third party documents then you could try contacting caroldiva.com or mypoupette.com as they regularly provide us with documents confirming authenticity. If we fail to receive the documents within our timeframe then the case will not close in your favour.

[jingkayjandayan]

yeah right, paypal is a joke. no wonder there's loads of counterfeiter selling products on ebay cos they know they can get away with it. 

[Victimscammed]

how interesting.

I have recently bought 23 items for 440usd and 38usd, I only received 3 items.  paypal asked me to get a police report.

police refused to accept report since as the police contstable said, ' paypal should know clearly from buying and selling history who to trust and make decision based on these two elements. police also said that just because the order did not arrive in the first parcel, doesn't count as crime. he went on saying, the order may arrive later, mayber seller decide to send all other items if paypal intends to close their account.  also the seller did not have an offcial website,  traded on msn  and nothing can be tracked. so he said since paypal have all the evidence , they should refund your money if you provide chat document, invoice, and DHL.

I have three evidences,

1. msn chat where I bought the items, seller said will send me second order with tracking number

2. DHL document shows that only 3 items received

3. invoice also shows only three items, and it shows the cost of items were only 30usd not 448 USD

Paypal were not very keen to receive these documents.

I also noticed after paying, the seller opened his webcam and I was horrified to see a seller looking like an under age kid. I mentioned this to paypal, but paypal says we don't go by age, and then somehow paypal changed the subject quickly.

I sought legal advice and my lawyer is looking into it.
 Laywer asked me to wait until final decision is made, then we start legal procedings should I not receive the refund of  440usd

Let's hope all goes well.

[Tiffany27]

I just ran across this thread. I know it is old, but sellers ABSOULUTELY CANNOT  get away with selling fake items on Ebay, or any other site, if you pay through PayPal. Yes, it will cost you a few dollars (only about $15 or less), but you just need to have it authenticated. AuthenticateFirst.com is a trusted Ebay/PayPal authentication company that will provide you with what you need in a dispute. The whole process only takes about 24 hours to get your certificate of authenticity OR non-authenticity. No store, LV,Prada,Gucci, etc...will do this, but that doesn't matter. If the seller is clear that they are selling an authentic item, and you get a fake, all you have to do is give PayPal the proof. They have to have something to back you up. Without proof, anybody could make any type of claim to fraudently get a refund. Scammers,ie. sellers of bogus bags, know this... which is why they try to avoid guaranteeing authenticity. They will commonly say that they got the bag as a gift or bought it from an estate sale, but that they are "sure it is real". Without positively saying that they guarantee authenticity, they leave themselves that "loophole". If they are selling a bag worth thousands, you can ask that they have it authenticated before you buy it. If they really want to sell it and they aren't trying to sell a fake, they can have an authentication company verify it. The certificate of authenticity, if it is found it to be real, will have the pictures of the bag that was submitted printed on the certificate. Theives have gotten clever, so we just have to stay a few steps ahead of them!

[Tiffany27]

I know it is old but I just came across this thread. The main problem that I see is the seller has to be very clear that what they are selling is 100% authentic. If it is not stated in the listing, then the buyer needs to be very clear and ASK! If the seller states that the item is authentic, then PayPal will protect you because you did not get what you paid for. If the seller says they can't be sure about authenticity (because they bought it at an estate sale, it was a gift,etc...), PayPal WILL NOT protect you in a matter of authenticity. They have to state authenticity 100% affirmatively. If you buy an item that  you are guaranteed is real, but get it and suspect it is fake, HAVE IT AUTHENTICATED! I have every bag, that I do not by myself from the store, authenticated so that if I ever decide to resell them, I have proof for the next buyer. It is not expensive (less than $15) and takes about 24 hours. LV will not do it. Gucci will not do it. Prada will not do it. You get what I am saying. AuthenticateFirst.com is a PayPal/Ebay trusted site that can provide certificates of authenticity or non-authenticity  to be used in disputes. PayPal is the best way to assure that you don't get scammed, but you have to do your part. Even if you were to find a bag on Craigslist, you can request that the seller let you pay with PayPal. They would need to send you a PayPal invoice stating 100% authenticity. You would then be protected. Obviously, scammers have figured out how to buy real bags, claim to PayPal that they received a fake, and get their money back and an authentic bag. You have to be able to prove what you sent them. I have sold several high end bags wirth thousands and this is what I do. Print out your shipping label. Go to the post office, or Fedex, with your item, packing slip, box, tape, camera and maybe a friend. Video yourself briefly showing the item (date code, heat stamp,etc...), packing it up, labeling with postage then handing it to the USPS/Fedex rep or droppong it in the mailbox. This may seem like a hassle but only takes about 5 extra minutes and guarantees that you are protected against the buyer lying about what you sent. If they file a claim with PayPal, it would be a "case closed" as soon as you present your proof. Theives have gotten smart, we have to be smarter.

[kernowlass]

Actually its against the law to sell a fake item. So the seller needs to make sure the item is authentic BEFORE they list it for sale.

Paypal WILL protect the buyer if the buyer gets written proof the item is a fake whether the seller knew when they sold the item or not.........the onus is on the seller to find out before they list it, ignorance is no excuse.

Its not up to the buyer at all to ask if it is authentic, as its against the law to sell fake items then that is the sellers problem not the buyers.