How has paypal disputes become this terrible?

[le457]

Summary of my recent experience:
-Booked a hotel room via a booking site that had incorrect photos & descriptions for a different room type which couldn't accomodate everyone travelling (informed by hotel staff about this 1 hour later when confirming my booking)

-Called booking site immediately. Level 1 support refused a refund because of their no-cancel policy, regardless of incorrect photos.

-Thought this would be an open and shut case with paypal disputes. Had screenshots of the ad and a statement from the hotel confirming the photos were for a different room.
-Paypal rejects the dispute after a few days claiming "because the item is materially similar to the seller's description"??
-Higher up support from the booking site later came back apologising after having a look at the add saying it was misleading and issued a refund anyway

The hotel and even the merchant I was in a dispute with agreed a refund was warranted, but my own payment provider which advertises 'buyer protection' comes back with a rejection.
I asked for advice on another popular financial site with the thread blowing up and an overwhelming amount of replies sharing horror stories telling me to prepare for a rejection and advising me not to use my paypal account for future purchases/terminate it if possible.

[kernowlass]

@le457 

Item or service has to be significantly not as described, as you booked a room and would have gotten a room then you would have lost the claim.

Paypal do not get involved in quality issues. 

Buyer protection is not a 100% coverall, you need to read up on it and then risk assess your own transactions, even credit cards don't give you 100% cover.

[le457]

@kernowlass  This has nothing to do with 'quality'. The item WAS significantly different to what was described. The ad was using pictures and descriptions of a completely different, larger room with additional facilities. Pictures for a completely different variant. The actual room didn't even have enough space or beds to fit the guests travelling. Even 2 external parties involved in the transaction agreed the ad was misleading. There are stories of paypal refunding similar cases online for far less(dirty rooms..etc). What has changed now? Is it because Paypal's shares are tanking? As someone who has worked in ecommerce for a decade, this would be an open and shut refund case in any other payment gateway.

"as you booked a room and would have gotten a room then you would have lost the claim". This is the most odd logic I have ever read. So booking sites can post fake photos and everything is ok 'as long as I got a room'. Sellers can post fake ads 'as long as I get a (fake)tracking number'. I guess this is why the platform has become a thriving place for scammers.

Im starting to see the recent hate for paypal and people warning me to close my personal and business account. 

[kernowlass]

@le457 

You booked a room and got a room, size is part of a quality issue and so you may well lose a claim.

[le457 · Accepted solution]

@kernowlass  The seller has 2 ads for 2 room 'TYPES'. 2 variants with 2 separate sizes, bed qtys and facilities. Photos and descriptions for both variants were swapped and incorrect. This is not the same as turning up to a hotel and complaining because 'it looked bigger in the photos'. I cannot simplify this any further for you and I'm not going to waste my time trying. I'm not sure how you've got an 'Esteemed Advisor' badge handing out advice like this.

For anyone else interested in responses from actual paypal staff instead of esteemed advisor badge hunters, after speaking to local staff on the phone(who were also confused about why this case was closed the way it was), according to them sometimes immediate resolution staff get things wrong. Sometimes due to human error or sometimes just laziness. If you do believe you are genuinely entitled to a refund within paypal's terms and have the evidence to back it up, speaking with a real human on the phone to appeal the decision/re-review the case details can work. This seems to be the general consensus with other people's experiences as well. This case has turned into a refund.

It's unfortunate that you have to jump through this many hoops and have your funds locked this long for something which should be a fairly simple case, but that seems to be the state of the platform currently and you may be better off paying directly with your credit card when booking rooms.

[kernowlass]

@le457 

Doesn't matter about size of room, quality of room, what the ad says, what you think of me or my status, in the event of a claim Paypal will see you booked a room and got a room. Quality of room is a separate issue and does not come under SIGNIFICANTLY other than as described.

I give you the facts, whether I believe those facts are fair or not is another matter, all I can tell you is how Paypal normally see it when resolving a claim.

If you want Paypal staff then contact customer services.

First I would actually read up on Paypals buyer protection policy, that policy is never a 100% coverall so yes in certain transactions I also would only use a credit card.

However I don't resort to being rude unlike you, so you're welcome and have a nice day.

I'm off to help nice posters that are the norm on here and my thousands of kudos / solutions come from them.

[le457]

@kernowlass 

"Quality of room"
It's not quality, it was a completely different room, but it seems to be too difficult for you to understand so let's drop the subject. The hotel has confirmed in writing that there was a mixup in advert assets, to the case has closed in my favour, your incorrect 'facts' are irrelevant.

"If you want Paypal staff then contact customer services."
I have spoken to local staff, just like I mentioned in my previous reply. But you're more concerned about shoving your 'facts' down my throat than actually reading what's posted so no surprise there. Their advice was contrary to yours.

"I'm off to help nice posters that are the norm"
You mean people that look at your status, accept your opinions as 'fact' and don't challenge you or use common sense? sure, do that.

"However I don't resort to being rude unlike you"
Perhaps adjust the tone of your own replies first and actually read whats posted instead of knee-jerk dismissing people's issues with repetitive blatantly incorrect advice and then wingeing when people reply in frustration. You keep saying I am complaining about the 'quality' of the room so I should lose my money when I keep trying to say it was a completely different room. I've worked in the ecommerce industry for a decade, this is an open and shut case on any other reputable payment gateway, even paypal. The initial dispute agent messed up here and it was resolved later. End of story. Yet you still keep arguing after I mentioned this in my previous post.

This entire transaction was worth over $800. If I were to accept your 'facts' as true instead of using my own experience of actually working in this industry for a decade I would have lost out on said $800. I challenged the dispute and got it back.

I am fortunate enough that even if I were to loose the $800 I would be ok. But there are people living paycheque to paycheque in this economy and your incorrect 'facts' would have been just plain harmful to such individuals in the same scenario were they to listen to you.

Anyway, I got my money back and your repetitive advice telling me I should lose my funds is no longer needed.

[kernowlass]

@le457 

You still can't take in that you booked a ROOM and received a ROOM.

That is all paypal need to know in the event of an item received but not as described dispute, like it or not.

I can only give you the facts, but if you can't understand them then never mind.

And yes I have saved thousands from being scammed on here over the years so guess looking at my 'title' was the last thing they were interested in.

Glad you got your funds back, the issue was only me explaining WHY you lost a paypal claim. 

As for the rest of your thread.  ...   🤔   🙄

[le457]

@kernowlass Dude, can you understand English or are you just trolling at this point? The case is closed in my favour and I got my money back. Your facts aren't even facts, they're just (incorrect)opinions now. Actual paypal staff who called me agreed that I didn't get the room I booked and the initial rejection was a mistake. YOU are not paypal staff. Your opinions are not above actual paypal staff's opinions who have agreed with me. Go away and make someone else lose their hard earned money with false 'facts'. You just know to type, but not read. Your low effort advice is no longer needed here, muted you.

[kernowlass]

@le457 

Really? So you saying paypal rejected your claim BUT ...

Higher up support from the booking site later came back apologising after having a look at the add saying it was misleading and issued a refund anyway

you now want to say you won your paypal claim........hmmm.

ok then, byeeeeee   😁