You cannot ship First Class International with Paypal shipping.

[woodstock1966]

I noticed you cannot ship first class with Paypal shipping to International places, even Canada. I ship everything with Paypal shipping and then I have to go over to Ebay shipping to ship First Class International because the other shipping options they have are to expensive. If I ship 1 Pokemon Card Paypal wants me to ship it Priority or Express. I always ship first class to ship 1 card. Please fix this problem Paypal. Thanks!

[IvanKalinin]

Just a side note to kmmp: Delivery time, when shipping to both France and England, seems to be more dependant upon the size of the package, than what kind of delivery service you pay for. Envelopes and packages get processed with different (weeks different) speeds when they get to the target country. 

At this stage of the deal, it would probably just ruffle your client's feathers by asking if they were comparing, say, a First Class envelope to a Priority package. That would be comparing apples to oranges.

Also just remember, paying extra U.S. postage for faster delivery -- only speeds delivery from America to the target country. It has absolutely no effect upon how that package is delivered within that country. Heck, you can even ship stuff to Iran -- if you are willing to wait a minimum of six months before delivery.

[WesKat]

Hi kmmp,

PLEASE share your secret on how you track your 1st class international shipments! I agree, it's cheap and I agree, it's often reasonably quick, but tracking (unless I wrap it in paper, seal it in paper tape then go to the post office and register it for $11.75) is news to me and my life would be SIGNIFICANTLY easier when i find out how to do it!  90% of my sales are international and the January 20ish USPS rate hike is KILLING me!

Thanks 🙂

[LookAtMe]

was curious about your statement: 1st class mail INCLUDES tracking.

I went to the USPS website and copy clipped FAQ:

Additional First Class Mail International Package Requirements

• First-Class Mail International packages (small packets and rolls), which because of their size, shape, or configuration might be mistaken for another category of international mail, should be marked “LETTER-POST” on the address side of the mailpiece.
• Requires PS Form 2976, Customs Declaration CN 22 — Sender’s Declaration (green label)
• If item weighs 16 oz or more, or is valued at $400 or higher, a separate PS Form 2976-A, Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note-CP 72, must be placed inside the envelope
• No tracking service
• No insurance available
• Registered Mail service available without insurance

 Here's the web link to read for yourself USPS 1st Class Intl FAQ Scroll down to the section on packages (small packets and rolls)

So please enlighten me on how you manage to get tracking on a service level that the USPS website clearly shows no tracking is available.

[eWorld_Trading]

Another problem with Paypal shipping is: you cannot choose use "color" or "lack" while you print shipping lable. Paypal dosen't give any option to let you choose. I never use "Color" to print my lables.

How about you?

[traveltrader]

Get yourself a book of stamps.

Stamps are first class mail.

OR you can also go to the post office. 

Although paypal could possibly integrate a working system for first class mail, it is unlikely given the hurdles they will have to overcome.

For first class mail - go to the post office. They don't bite over there. 🙂

[IvanKalinin]

Hi again, 

I'd like to add my 2¢ to a couple comments recently made. 

First to LookAtMe; Well technically, there really is some kind of tracking. But it's not too helpful, because the US Post can only track to the US border. That little green Customs form (2976), or for the more valuable packages, the big white multiple-copy one (2976-A), both have a bar code on them. 

You can use the bar code number, exactly as a Tracking Number, to see that your package got as far a JFK Airport in New York. But that's as far as it goes. Bar codes change standards in other countries, and cannot even be read by foreign post offices. [Why you ask? For the same reason the entire rest of the world is Metric, and the US is still English Standard.] 

So, you can tell a foreign client that your package got on a plane, bound for overseas, on a particular date. That's it.

Next to traveltrader; What most of us are looking for, is an increase in convenience. Not only for us, but also for the folk working the Post Office. When I sell something on eBay, I can ship using their system. It works almost seamlessly for First Class International. It will directly debit my PayPal account, and print out the correct Customs form, already completed. I just slap it onto my package, and put it in my own home mailbox. They pick it up automatically.

That is way more convenient than going to the Post Office. I for one, work 8:00 am to 5:00 pm. The Post Office is only open from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm. For me to go to the Post Office, I must schedule Vacation time-off from work, or wait until Saturday. Not convenient. 

Now, when it comes to foreign shipping for anything that eBay doesn't handle, there really isn't anything that can hold a candle to it. Your alternative of buying a book of stamps, is absolutely correct. Except in my case, I ship about 250 foreign packages a month, for the Gutenberg Project. It ain't a book of stamps. It is about $800 of stamps every month.

And there is nothing on the market today (other than eBay) which automatically fills out those Customs forms. Well, nothing that is free or cheap. eBay can do it automatically because I am a merchant. Stamps.com will do it, but for an added monthly fee. And that doesn't interface well with my Macintosh computer. 

So for now, I have to fill out each of those /////ing Customs forms by hand, and add stamps by hand, and then wait until Saturday, to get several boxes of a couple hundred packages into the Post Office. Some folk who request a package on Monday, do not understand why I cannot mail until Saturday. Can you say Negative Feedback? 

"Could something be more convenient?" 

That is what we are asking. eBay can already do First Class International. PayPal is a wholly-owned subsidiary of eBay. So why can't their computers talk to one another? Oh wait, they already do. They are already able to charge my account for First Class International shipping from eBay. So, what stops PayPal from offering the service? 

Really, having a pre-generated, pre-paid form #2976 is convenient to more than just me. The folk at my local Post Office love them. They just have to weigh the package and scan the bar code -- and their computer interface verifies the postage is right. On the other hand, the extra manual work involved when there is a non-computerized form; including manually counting the postage (which, for the same weight, varies by country); can cause some workers to become snarky. Especially when presented with over 200 packages at a time. 

Our Post Office is so small I know all the front desk workers by name (Kathy, Donna, Patricia & Mike); by shift; by window worked; and by preference. Which means I can _never_ mail on Thursday. I just remember who does a consistent job, and go to their window always. Then I give them a present for Christmas (I give home-made wine). The one who has rejected packages because they were too "flimsy", doesn't get wine. [There really is a regulation which covers "flimsy" packages.] 

Yes, Post Office workers don't bite. But when they invoke obscure bureaucratic regulations, just because they had a bad night with their significant other, is about the same. 

[LookAtMe]

oh PLEASE!

that bar code that tells you the package made to the export city does NOT qualify as tracking according to PayPal. And PayPal is the one who decides the buyer gets a full refund when the buyer opens the claim that  the package never arrives.

Been there, done that, been burned, lost my money AND the item.

Again if the international buyer won't pay for the kind of tracking that shows it's been delivered to the address on the shipping label then I'm not doing business with them!

In the US (and it's territories) the USPS has great tracking included when I print my labels online. 

[IvanKalinin]

Aye, and there's the rub. 

I also did say, the tracking info wasn't very helpful. 

That has been the dichotomy we've always had, when selling stuff on eBay. 

People don't surf eBay, when they're looking for expensive collectors items. People surf eBay because they want a cheap deal. That means they want cheap shipping. 

I've sold on eBay for about six years; and always offered International shipping -- First Class, Priority, and Express. Only One sale, has the client ever paid for Priority (which includes some kind of international tracking). 

For me, non-delivery has been about 1% of the items I've shipped international. Always, a package; never an envelope. Something big and bulky seems to draw the attention of grifters within the mail stream. My products are so cheap (and my work for Gutenberg is free); so such has never been an issue. I simply ship a duplicate. 

But for the products that LookAtMe sells, that would be a major issue. 

The dichotomy is, clients want cheap -- but they also want guaranteed delivery; which they are not willing to pay for. As far as international shipping goes, they can't have both. 

LookAtMe's policy for shipping international is perfect. For that business. 

The rub is, a bunch of us want PayPal to offer the cheap shipping of First Class International mail. And for me, I want the convenience. 

I can't exactly see someone claiming they shipped a Picasso by First Class International; then lost it; then sue PayPal because there wasn't Tracking available. But stranger claims have been made in the courts. 

Apparently, PayPal doesn't want to risk a whole bunch of claims of lost packages. They don't want to take on the risk of shipping without tracking or insurance. 

There has to be some policy which PayPal can create, which will allow the cheap & convenient shipping of First Class International; without PayPal taking a bath in outrageous and expensive loss claims. 

The question is, what?