Buyer lost claim-ebay seller protection-did chargeback through paypal-can't ship new items!

[sunraw]

So I've had a month long journey with a nefarious buyer who opened a claim against me 2 days after they purchased an item (they bought 3 of the same

items, $100 each so $300 value) as I ship from Canada and he was in Florida that was first red flag. I immediately called ebay to inform them.

Then a few days later he replied to the case with dodgy photos of a product that does not resemble what  I sent and because the timeline

was fraudulent, it was easy for ebay to judge against the buyer and case close, my money was back to me that was held in Paypal.

(All of this happened in the Ebay Resolution center and full communication)
So then the buyer threatens me through the mail system that they are going to 'chargeback' ALL 3 items. So now I thought he was bluffing

as "how could they do that after ebay decided against the buyer" .. well a few days pass and ONE chargeback. 5 days later ANOTHER Chargeback

2 out of 3 items are now being reviewed and $200 USD is being held  (I had zero dollars so it's MINUS $200) after I took an a few hours to dispute

each case - (collecting data, photos,ebay messages)    ... and it won't be another 20 days for Paypal to 'decide' . I phoned them twice as well all paypal does is shuttle me to the online resolution center anyways even after explaining ebay already decided against the buyer!!

I have 500 new items listed this week.   I generally sell $100 - $500 in a cycle auctions.   If I make UNDER $200 - but I have 10 items to ship, and it's all absorbed into the $200 being 'held' because of the crook and paypal not communicating properly with me , am I to assume ALL of those buyers will simply have to wait ?  I have NO funds in my bank account, I have NO credit cards, so I can't 'pay out of pocket' for shipping labels.   Am I to cancel all my auctions before they end on Saturday so this doesn't happen?  Should I sue Paypal for destroying my ability to do business? (yeah me and what army of lawyers?)    I'm so disappointed in the 'system' as people are right, the Seller is the dog that is beaten and malnoursihed in the eyes of paypal / ebay.  WHere is the protection against these "chargebacks" PAYPAL??   I notice in the fine print it says "no matter what , the card issuer has the final decision" . That's a joke and a slap in the face if I've ever heard .   Am I in the clear because Ebay DID decide immediately against the buyer , do I have to simply wait the time allotted and hope the good light will shine?   But what do I do till then? How do I pay those shipping labels when My money is being choked? NOT FAIR PAYPAL.

[sharpiemarker]

The buyer chargedback through their card issuer so it is not even a PayPal dispute, in which case PayPal has no say, they fight the case on your behalf if they feel they can win.  Did you ship the items to this buyer?  If the payments are eligible for seller protection, PayPal may reimburse you.  Read the seller protection program documentation to see if you are eligible.

Personally, I would have refunded the buyer and canceled their orders at their request if I have not shipped in the 2 days interim and they pulled that kinda stunt on me.  No money is worth all this hassle.  Relist to sell another day.

[sunraw]

Sharpiemaker - ALL 3 items were shipped to this customer - 3 items all $100 USD. They were in transit via post when the Customer opened the claim.
Let me explain what the customer is doing. It's a scam. If I accepted the 'return' (how can they return something that wasn't even receive YET due to basic timeline of post? - it takes 7 to 14 business days from canada .. he opened a case 2 days after I shipped) they would have sent me back an item that was not the right item aka an old broke item as their 'return' because all items were sent NEW IN BOX.. in other words never used sealed right from the store.. they would have to invent this claim, to make it fit their story. Get it?? You didn't understand my situation as you say "you would have refunded the buyer and cancelelled their orders" Does not apply to my situation as how can one 'cancel' orders that were placed in the mail? Impossible. I'm not giving you Kudos because you did not seem to read my post. You even ask me "did you ship the items to this buyer"?? Of course! That's why Ebay closed the case in my favor! Did you read how the buyer threatened me with 'chargeback'?? The 'stunt' they pulled happened after the items were shipped. They decided they wanted the items and their money back. Anyone here have any constructive words? I don't need a paradox of words and I don't need another link to the paypal policies.. they don't help in many unique situations people have.

[DPCreations]

Your post seems to be missing some chronological details.

 What were the products?

Did you have any communication with the buyer before or after the sale?

On what date was the sale?  When did you ship?

It is quite normal for a buyer to do a credit card chargeback when the seller fails to negotiate a settlement with the buyer.  Sellers fail to undersand the costliness of not negotiating or accepting and early settlement.

[sunraw]

Buyer bought 3 items $100 each.
They paid immediate.

I shipped items out. 2 days later the buyer opened a case against me for ONE of the items claiming damage.
Since the item was NOT EVEN BEYOND THE BORDER OF CANADA - it was not even in his hands to make a claim.
COmmunication began in 'resolution center' after they opened case. No direct messages or concerns by buyer.
buyer took 5 days to get photos together . Ebay decided against buyer . communication happened a bit after Resolution center - they were threats from the buyer saying they will now do a chargeback for ALL 3 items, because they are now being vindictive (1 item claim damage.. 3 chargebacks.. get the connection?)

The date of the sale was last month and I shipped 2 days after they bought the items.

Chronological was buyer purchased items, claimed damage before item even reached them, opened case , lost case for 1 item, opened chargeback for more than one item. Now I'm out minus $200 at least and can't print NEW shipping labels for new items I sell because money is locked.

[DPCreations]

Did you provide tracking number to seller so seller could monitor shipping progress?

During the dispute resolution phase you had an option to negotiate a settlement.  You had up to 20 days to do so unless buyer escalated sonner.  At this point, I would have made a phone call to buyer to discuss the issue.  If an item arrived damaged, it would have been an immeidate full or partial refund, depending on the issue.  Settling at this point is much better than where you are now.  

It's important to understand the process an angry buyer takes.  eBay dispute; if that fails, then PayPal dispute; if buyer still fails, then an angry buyer files a claim and wins all with credit card chargeback.  A seller should do whatever is necessary to avoid that stage as it it very costly.

[sunraw]

I mentioned that I WON the ebay resolution center dispute against me. Of COURSE there was communication with the buyer.

[sunraw]

you said "It is quite normal for a buyer to do a credit card chargeback when the seller fails to negotiate a settlement with the buyer. Sellers fail to undersand the costliness of not negotiating or accepting and early settlement." ..

FAILED TO NEGOTIATE A SETTLMENT?? What are you talking about? This buyer is trying every trick in the book to keep the product, send me nothing back and keep the money. Did you NOT read my post where I mention KEY DETAIL that Ebay already CLOSED the case against the buyer in the Resolution center? So NOW you are saying Sellers are 'failing' in negotiations? It maybe normal for some buyers to do 'chargebacks' but this is not a normal situation. First time it has happened to this seller in 15 years of selling on ebay. Obviously NOT normal. You are basically saying I have to commit to a 'negotiation settlement' without even getting a chance to negotiate! That is so illogical. I won the claim in Ebay. I'm getting a good insight of how this works though. It's slimy.

[sharpiemarker]

Was not asking for kudoes.  Just my post signature, saying thanks ahead of time if any are given which are not compulsory.

In your orig. post, you never said you had already shipped.  You said you 'ship from Canada' which I took to mean you are in Canada and the buyer is in the US.  I said that IF the buyer pulled that stunt with me and I hadn't shipped yet, I would have refunded, because like DCPcreations said, your orig post was missing some information.

Not saying what the buyer did wasn't shady, but my thing is you just have to go through the motions in fighting chargeback case(s).  The cases are still open and PayPal has not ruled in favor of the buyer yet, right?  They will check tracking, etc and other eveidence that you submitted.  Meanwhile, check if you are eligible to chargeback coverage and argue for it on appeal if you lose. One problem customer should not compromise your whole operation so your have to reassess how you do business and maintain cashflow in the future so you can ship your other customers.  Good luck.

[sharpiemarker]

The buyer protection program rules for US applies for your case:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#purchase-protection

PayPal CA Seller protection rules:

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_CA#11