Refund for a non delivered and potentially fraudulent crowd funding campaign

[Stevieboy74]

Hi everyone,


Not sure if it's an avenue worth exploring, but I thought I'd ask the community for advice to see if somebody could advise me as to my entitlement, if any?

Just over a year ago I backed an Indiegogo campaign £105 using paypal that was scheduled to be delivered in September 2016. It's now over six months after that date and nothing. Now I perfectly understand that crowd funding is a risk, but this is no ordinary crowdfunding campaign.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega-plus-console-games/x/13396979#/


If you read the backer comments on this campaign you'll start to get a picture of what is going on, but to summarise...

Shortly after the campaign was funded two of the company's (Retro Computers Ltd - RCL for short) original directors left over a dispute, and took the IP for the product we backed with them. It went to court and the two directors who left won the case, leaving the remaining directors of RCL with extensive legal fees and the technical components of the product missing. The campaign was funded to the tune of just over half a million pound (uk), and although this money was supposed to be ring fenced it now appears that its probably been used for legal fees. The remaining directors at RCL have done nothing since but fob backers off, lie to them, ignore repeated requests for information and refunds, and it now seems that if we ever get anything at all, it's going to be a cheap corner cutting product that is nothing like what we all originally backed.

The whole thing is a mess that none of us want to be a part of anymore. If they'd shown any level of courtesy to the backers, been honest and provided regular updates as to what was happening and what progress had been made then I would have just written it off as a crowd funding risk, but the fact that they've done none of this and just treated us with contempt has left a real bitter taste in everyone's mouth. Also I'm not that up on law, but if they spent supposidly ring fenced backers money on court fees then that itself can't be legal, surely?

My question is is there any way I can apply for a refund from paypal? I've asked RCL directly but they've ignored my request, and have done the same with many other backers. I understand that there's a maximum 6 month period for a refund with paypal, but I thought I'd enquire as this isn't what you would deem an ordinary case. Other backers who paid directly with a credit card are successfully getting refunds from their credit card companies under section 75 claims, and it seems a shame to be penalised for using paypal in this instance when it generally offers fantastic buyer protection.

Any thoughts of advice would be gratefully received.

Regards - Steve (uk)

[Whac-A-Mole]

if you have used your credit cards via Paypal,try filing chargeback with them,else it is not covered by PAypal-

digital,virtual items,services,real estate,auto ,custom order,investment are not covered by buyer protection,and the time frame is 180 days/

before you use Paypal,understand buyer and seller protections 

[Stevieboy74]

Well its because I clearly haven't understood that I was asking for clarification, especially as this is not a standard situation, but thanks for the response.

[Vivere]

 I also am a victim of Indiegogo. Their website clearly says Noise Quieting Earplugs for $199.00 and free shipping worldwide. This is clearly a product for sale. I ordered these and paid through Paypal.  When the seller did not answer my email about when I would get my product, I disputed the purchase. Paypal informed me that they would not refund my money because Indiegogog told them my money was a "contribution". I pointed out clearly that the website was selling a product and I was not making a contribution. Paypal said sorry, your money is gone and the Product Protection Plan does not apply. The seller gets to keep my money and I do not get what I bought.

 Also, Paypal said to go back to my bank to dispute this and get a refund. My bank says "yes we will refund the money from our own money".  A bank dispute with Paypal almost never gets the money and the bank eats the cost. This is incredibly disappointing and if Paypal does reimburse my bank, I will gladly retract this post.

[Whac-A-Mole]

did you pay under friends and family,not goods and services?

then it is a gift.

[sharpiemarker]

@Vivere

Was it this?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/quieton-active-noise-cancelling-earplugs-sleep#/

When I clicked on the perk box where the it says price and free shipping, I got this:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/quieton-active-noise-cancelling-earplugs-sleep/payments/new?perk_...

It says "By clicking 'Submit Payment', you acknowledge you are contributing to a concept or work-in-progress and not making a direct purchase." 

The odd thing is that there is no PayPal option to pay.  Does one have to log in to get PayPal payment option?

Could actually get this on Amazon now:

https://www.amazon.com/QuietOn-Active-Noise-Cancelling-Plugs/dp/B01N7KXFQ4

[Vivere]

You are correct.  It pays to read the fine print. It looks exactly like an opportunity to buy a product, but only after you foolishly believe what it says, does a person get the actual (we might just decide to keep your money) message.

 This offer is not a scam but deserves a serious "WARNING" be included.

[sharpiemarker]

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#purchase-protection

Ineligible items and transactions under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program

Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

-Real estate, including residential property.
-Businesses (when you buy or invest in a business).
-Vehicles, including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats.
-Significantly Not As Described claims for custom-made items.
-Payments on crowdfunding platforms.
-Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy.
-For Item Not Received claims, items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought in a seller’s store location.
-Industrial machinery used in manufacturing.
-Anything purchased from, or an amount paid to, a government agency.
-Stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards.
-Gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize.
-Sending money to a friend or family.