Apparent bait and switch transaction not protected by Paypal

[readytosuetoo]

I have been fighting with a seller and Paypal for days trying to get a refund for apparent bait and switch fraud by the seller.  Ordered qty 2 electronic branch trimmers (the bait), seller sent qty 2 of cheap manual clippers (the switch).  Tried direct with vendor, who  would not acknowledge  that they sent the wrong items and simply offered minimal refund (they crept up to $13 on an $80 order over several emails) because "I was unhappy with my purchase".  Asked for return address and got one written out completely in Chinese, which I neither read not write.  After several email exchanges didn't get a useful return address, filed a complaint with Paypal resolution center.  Their step 1 is to reach out to the vendor.  Eventual reply was I could get a refund from Paypal on receipt of tracking info showing I had returned the crap items I didn't order.  They at least supplied a return address in Hong Kong.  I checked shipping lowest cost via UPS to get tracking and the cost to return the unordered items was almost as much as the cost of the items (items cost $79.96, return of junk cost $76.06).  Paypal doesn't care that this is apparent bait and switch.  The vendor could have sent me a brick in a box and if I didn't return the brick, at my cost, they wouldn't provide a refund.  A Paypal agent confirmed on a phone call today that because the vendor sent "something", it had to be returned.  Paypal says they have return reimbursement.  It is limited to $30 and has other conditions that don't guaranty any refund of the shipping.      I'm considering legal action, maybe even be able to mount a class-action if there are a lot of people getting ripped off like this.  Buyers should not be on the hook to pay return shipping charges if the seller makes a "mistake".  Paypal seems to think me being out $46 (assuming Paypal would cover the first $30 of the $76.) is within the terms and conditions of the service.  I would agree if it were a case of the buyer making a mistake.  If a seller doesn't supply the items ordered, the seller should correct their mistake, including return postage for the incorrect items). If they are unwilling to correct their mistake at their expense, Paypal should refund the buyer, as the seller did not fulfill the order as placed and transacted via Paypal.  Paypal advertises themselves as a safe method to shop to be protected against fraudulent activity.  That's not my experience at all.  Anyone else run into this type of bait and switch activity and feel like they are getting ripped off by both the seller and Paypal?  If you haven't and are under the impression Paypal will protect you in a situation like this, think again.  I'd be interested to hear from others who feel cheated.  I also won't be surprised if this post even survives being posted.  I'm probably going to file formal complaints with my state attorney general, the federal consumer protection agency or trade commission and/or the US postmaster, as the items came via the US postal service.

[sharpiemarker]

@readytosuetoo 

You're not going to sue and I will tell you why in a bit...

PayPal's purchase protection program is not a guarantee, warranty or insurance and have its limitations. If you can't resolve the issue with seller and ask PayPal to step in, they have their own way of resolving things: Return for a refund. If the outcome is not to your satisfaction, (here's why!) you may forfeit your PayPal dispute/claim altogether and invoke your credit card chargeback rights, if that is how you paid. This way, if you filed a not as described dispute with your cc issuer, the seller is not protected under PayPal seller protection coverage, will incur a chargeback fee, possible drawn out resolution time, while you get provisional to permanent refund from your card issuer and may not even be required to return item. That is if your card allows you to dispute it so ask them. And the case must be resolved exclusively through your cc issuer. The PayPal dispute will close indefinitely once you go the cc issuer route.

Be careful who you buy from. Do a quick web search on the merchant/site domain/product/price before buying. If no info, best to keep it movin'. This task can save you headaches and money. And the info is at our fingertips. Or, stick to merchants/retailers you know are reputable. Can't go roaming and buy from just anyone anymore.

If you want to leave feedback about your dispute experience, go to the transaction, click "report a problem". On bottom of next page, there is a way to let PayPal know.

[readytosuetoo]

@sharpiemarker   Thanks for your feedback.  My CC behind the transaction is my next step.  Paypal is well aware of how I feel about how they handled this case.  Paypal markets itself as a safe way to shop on the internet.  This means that Paypal users are more apt to purchase from vendors whose names may not be familiar.   How about Paypal doing some research as to the vendors they partner with prior to processing payments?  It shouldn't all fall on the buyer, especially if you're marketing yourself as a safe way to shop.  It seems Paypal is more interested in protecting the sellers, however poorly and possibly illegally they behave, than they are in protecting the buyers, even in the face of apparent bait and switch fraud.   Based on my experience, buyers should be just as wary of Paypal as they should be of the sellers.

Thanks again.

[sharpiemarker]

@readytosuetoo 

PayPal does research alright, asking for peoples' IDs, business docs, bank/credit card statements, utility bills but how do they know if a seller will do something like this though? And how do PayPal know for sure its intentional? So PayPal is going to inspect every seller's actual inventory (not just supplier receipts) to see if each item matches their website). This isn't Tom Cruise's Minority Report (if you haven't seen the movie), getting into precogs. Then there is the cost to do the research. And do you know how many PayPal accounts there are out there? And when they close one, another scam one opens. We are our last line of defense. If you do not want to do research, simply stick to merchants you know. PayPal always partners with reputable companies though. Its just us, their customers at large, buy from whoever, sign up for a PayPal account and do sketchy borderline things with it. We, the customers at large are our own last line of defense. We also have to take some responsibility. If something is too good to be true, it is.

Yes, buyer should be wary of PayPal. As they do have policies, terms and conditions but do people read them? You can lead a horse to water and all that.

[readytosuetoo]

@sharpiemarkerThanks, but your replies are so far tilted in support of Paypal, I am beginning to think you either work for them, or are compensated for supporting them.  Yes, buyers have some responsibility when it comes to with whom they choose to do business, but when a company markets itself as a safe haven, they must accept at least some responsibility to protect buyers from those supposedly reputable vendors that you claim Paypal always partners with.  This wasn't a case of too good too be true.  The items I purchased had very reasonable prices, not "too good to be true".  If only the seller had actually sent what I purchased.  What I take exception with is Paypal's "If they sent you ANYTHING, you must pay to return it" before they will refund your money stance. Buyers should not have to pay to return items they did not order.  Period.  I'm happy to return the items the vendor sent.  I've requested prepaid postage or a call tag directly from the vendor and via the resolution process with Paypal.  The vendor ignored the request and Paypal claimed they can't force the seller to pay for return shipping.  Paypal seems to have no problem forcing the BUYER to pay return shipping before they will offer a refund.

[sharpiemarker]

@readytosuetoo 

LOL I don't work for them. (Those who do have PayPal logo next to their screen name.) I advise other users as an account holder myself. I just see what can be done realistically and what can't. With how paypal's protection policies are, they can't cover EVERYTHING and what's out there on the net, it's just not feasible to do. PayPal allows you to file with your credit card if the PayPal dispute is not satisfactory if that's how you paid.

PayPal cannot force seller to provide return shipping, nor refund you more than that you paid. And buyers are not entitled to return shipping in the dispute, which is in the purchase protection terms.

Please read Buyer Protection terms for eligibility:

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

PayPal has a return shipping refund program for future purchases if this return is not eligible:

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

Seller Protection terms: 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection