Can a buyer to fraud/scam the seller using paypal? Selling something on Craigslist

[larany]

Hello.

I have used paypal before with no problem.

I am selling an expensive item on Craigslist. A person emailed me and said they are out of the country but want to purchase the item and will pick it up when they return.

I was scammed on Craigslist once. The person sent a fake money order. Then took the item. By the time the bank realized that money order was fake it was too late.

Is there anyway someone could scam you on paypal?

[samantha13]

similar story...

I am currently selling my motorbike on Ebay (as well as advertising on other websites), and have received a couple of strange emails from 'potential buyers'.

Both 'buyers' state that they want the bike now and ask that i give them my paypal email address, and go on to tell me how to sign up to paypal and that it's very easy, even giving the web link to paypal...

The first buyers name was Clark **** so i was obviously suspicious, but the second has a more normal name. I have told both to visit ebay and pay me via paypal from ebay. both have aweful grammer and the second even said that they couldnt talk over the phone because they are 95% deaf and are at sea somewhere so only able to pay via paypal...

i just checked the paypal website to find that you can pay friends and family and for products just using paypal and not through ebay (i didnt know this before!)  

my guess is that the 'buyer' is hoping to catch someone who doesnt already have a paypal account, who will then click the lnk in their email and sign up to paypal, inadvertantly giving all their bank details to a fraudster???

copy of email from clark ****:

Thanks for the mail....Just asking about it to make sure its in good condition. so i want you to assure me i will not be disappointed? i also want you to please understand that i wont be able to see it for myself but i have a mover who will be coming for the inspection and the document procedure.Im satisfied with your firm/advert price, As im requesting this transaction should be done via paypal so the paypal charges is on me.Payment will be made via paypal only(if you dont have an account, its very easy, safe and secured go to www.paypal.com) im presently out of town for the new year manifest.But i  also want you to get back to me with some pics for me to see and also please get back to me with the paypal address for me to make the payment asap.

Clark

Stay Blessed!!!

copy or email from kelvin ********:

Thanks for mailing back,i am an Oceania and i am buying this for Dad, i am at sea right now, I can only pay through paypal at the moment as i dont have access to my bank account online,but i have it attached to my paypal account, and this is why i insisted on using paypal to pay,all i will need is your paypal email address to make the payments,and if you dont have a paypal account yet,its pretty easy to set one up at www.paypal.co.uk,i wil be expecting your email.I have a pick up agent that will come for the pick up after payments.I will like to have communicate and discuss this via Phone but i am 95% Deaf and i do use hearing piece so that was why i have prefer to communicate more through Mail ...So kindly get back to asap...i need to see more photos also and i will like to know the last asking price.

Stay Blessed.

i have checked and both appear to have seen the bike on www.trade-it.co.uk. i am contacting this website to ask that the remove the add.

ruddy scamsters.

x+x-x

[hemanhim]

I am in the process right now of selling a car on craigslist and have a similar situation.  The buyer's name is supposedly *** ******.  Coincidence?

[AllAmericanShow]

YES A BUYER CAN SCAM A SELLER USING PAYPAL. I JUST HAD 640.00 STOLEN FROM ME THROUGH PAYPAL.

[PayPal_Olivia]

Welcome to the forums, folks!

There are a few things to remember to help keep you safer when selling online. PayPal's Seller Protection covers the seller against claims of non-receipt and for unauthorized transactions, and applies when the transaction is listed as eligible and you ship to the address in the transaction details. See the full details of Seller Protection by clicking here. If Seller Protection doesn't apply, either because the transaction is listed as ineligible, or because the tracking requirements are not met (like in a situation of buyer pickup or delivery to an agent for the buyer), then it is up to the seller to evaluate the risk and decide whether he or she wants to take that risk. If your assessment is that the risk is too high, you can opt not to participate in the transaction.

It sounds like larany and AllAmericanShow both came by their wisdom the hard way. It sounds like samantha13's instincts are going to save her some trouble.

For some more tips on selling safely, [click here].

[AllAmericanShow]

Well Olivia here is the story. I sold a Bianchi Bicycle for 340.00. I charged 300 for shipping to Taiwan. It actually cost me 309 to ship but that was ok. I sold a complete bicycle that weighed 30 lbs. I have the Post Office reciept that proves it. The buyer filed a dispute stating that I shipped a Mongoose mountain bike frame. Paypal told him to ship it back for a refund. He shipped me a mountain bike frame that was weighed by Fedex at 20 lbs. I appealed and Paypal still awarded the buyer. I am sorry but 10 lbs differance in what I shipped and what was returned is an obvious sign of a scam by buyer. I am **bleep**ed out of 640.00 and the buyer got his money back plus has my bike. where is the seller protection here?

[PayPal_Olivia]

Hi AllAmericanShow,

I understand your frustration completely. It seems to be a logical leap to think that a difference in weight would be likely to represent a difference in the item returned. Bear in mind, that determination is based on some variables requiring assumption. Was the weight accurately recorded on both labels? Was there a significant difference in the packaging? In the mediation of a dispute, what assumptions can and can't be made?

You can definitely contact Customer Solutions and appeal the decision and ask for a re-evaluation. I can't promise that the outcome will be different, but the case can certainly be reviewed again. There are limits to what information can and can't be considered, but casting a light on the details may be helpful. Supplying your information for review is important to help us prevent buyers from abusing the dispute process.

Olivia

[wc]

I have noticed a trend with many buyers, using Papal to pay for an item. I like to call it renegotiation of the price, after the transaction is complete. This has happened to me and many of my friends, since sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for a buyer. This can also happen on a private transaction as well.

A buyer wins an auction or purchases an item directly and pays with Papal. After receiving the item, the buyer complains about damage, wrong color, etc, and wants a partial refund of a set price. The seller refuses to give a partial refund and asks the buyer to return the item. The buyer refuses and starts to hammer away with threats about what they are going to do and how they are going to file a dispute with Papal and cause the seller pain and suffering and extra expenses. The seller over and over again tells the buyer in emails to please return the item. The buyer refuses and still demands money. They usually start out high, depending on the item, and then start chipping away at the refund amount they are demanding. They start twisting and spinning words and continue to harass.

My frustration and Question is:

frustration: Why did Papal leave this sort of exposure to all the honest sellers, without having some sort of protection in place? Surely there is something Papal can do, so we can report this buyer abuse of Papal?

Question: What can a seller do to protect themselves against this sort of buyer behavior? Can we report this buyer and will it do any good.

[PayPal_Olivia]

Hi wc, welcome to the forums!

The truth is that in any marketplace or selling venue, the seller usually ends up reaching farther toward compromise than the buyer. If you walked into a store with a boxed-up lamp and said "when I got home and plugged this lamp in, it did not work" then the store would take the lamp back and either give you your money back or a new lamp. A buyer who is shopping online has to have the same expectation of recourse, or that buyer will have no reason to buy online - they'll just go to that brick and mortar store where they can hold the item in their hands before committing to buy, and can return it if something is wrong.

I can definitely understand your concern. There is some exposure for the seller if a buyer is being dishonest. This is true online, and it's true in person. In selling, the default assumption has to be that a buyer's claim is honest. Obviously there are situations where additional information will disprove that honesty, but in the absence of sufficient information to prove the buyer's dishonesty, the onus is on the seller to make things right.

Now, if a buyer is in the habit of acting this way, PayPal is going to notice, and look more deeply into the buyer's activities. Buyers who are discovered to be abusing the dispute process face the possibility of account limitation or other actions.

The best recommendation I can make is to be as forthcoming as possible in the dispute process, and offer the information you have. Even if it doesn't win you the claim, it shows the circumstances and contributes to the big picture.

I hope this helps!

Olivia

[stupidkangaroo]

This is for a craigslist listing i have right now.

Think this ones a fraud? We'll find out 🙂

Thanks for your reply,i am located in Chastworth city

in GEORGIA ,i really need to buy this and send to my

son schooling outside the state as a New year gift .I have

been trying to buy this on eBay but its so very stressful

buying on eBay.I will offer you $630 so as to close the

deal as soon as possible.I will be paying through PAYPAL

account.Once payment clears,shipment will be handled by me through my

personal FedEx account,so you don't have to pay for

shipment.Get back to me if my approval is granted.I would like to see

the pictures please.

Thanks.