How can I escalate a fraud complaint when the scammer is defrauding the dispute resolution process?

[HSPotter]

I am being scammed by what is obviously a very experienced fraudster whose entire operation is designed to get around Paypal's buyer protection and rip people off. I bought two large cheeseboards off this buyer and they supplied a worthless ring instead. They first tried to pass it off as a "gift" because I complained that my order hadn't turned up. They then tried to get me to accept the ring instead of my order. When I refused, they tried to offer me a 20% refund in exchange for keeping the ring. It's an obvious deliberate scam so I reported them for supplying something significantly different to what I ordered. 

They finally offered a full refund but only AFTER I return their cheap ring to a FAKE address in the UK (they are a China-based business). This is clearly part of the scam. If they don't receive the product back, I don't get my refund. They are banking on me either not being willing to pay the extortionate postage to send it to the UK, te parcel being delayed by Covid and failing to arrive within the two week deadline (likely) and/or never arriving because that address DOES NOT EXIST. 

Paypay clearly hasn't read the information I've sent them telling them this company is conducting a fraudulent operation. I now have only two options - send the product to a fake address and spend MORE money to lose all my money, or close the dispute. I'm furious and I think this is disgusting. 

How else can I get Facebook to review this company's outrageously dodgy behaviour? I want a full refund and I want these scammers shut down. They are still selling this product and I'm certain they are doing the same thing to all buyers. 

[kernowlass · Accepted solution]

@HSPotter 

In the event of a dispute you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you buy from that seller / item / country because....

Paypal state this >>
PayPal is not obliged to reimburse you for any costs that you incur to comply with any of PayPal’s requests for cooperation for the purpose of resolving the problem (including, without limitation, costs that you incur to return a SNAD item to the Payment Recipient or another party as PayPal requests), although sometimes it may reimburse these costs.

Although they will compensate you for some of the cost if you have activated this at some point before you made that transaction.
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns

You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card.

[alshe011]

I don't think you have provided any soultion, people, including me, are complaining that PayPal is not trustworthy. We are expecting PayPal to at least some the scammer from scamming more people. I ordered an electric adjustable table, I got a small plastic lab top stand that is very small and cheap. I looked up the website and all the reviews said that they have had same scam, still PayPal is not convinced.

[kernowlass]

@alshe011 

Well the person that asked the question provided me with a solution and kudos so they were happy with what I posted.

And to be honest as I was not replying to you then quite frankly whether you think it is a solution or not matters not one jot to me.

I just post the facts of how Paypal works, so if you don't like it then take it up with them.

If you received the incorrect item then you if you want buyer protection you have to follow the conditions of Paypals buyer protection policy in Paypals user agreement all set out for you to read before using Paypal to purchase items.

Paypal doesn't have to be convinced of anything, they didn't tell you to buy from a scam site, they just give you 'some' buyer protection and its up to you to risk assess your own transactions.

[Kaney69]

This seems to be a widespread fraud skim. I am having the same issue with a seller asking me to ship back the product in China and he is right here in the USA using PayPal to scam people.

[HSPotter]

Yes this scammer is insisting I ship the product to the UK before providing a refund. The seller is based in China and the address provided in the UK DOES NOT EXIST - which I have managed to confirm by contacting the owner of a business Facebook group who coordinates businesses in that street (it's a small village in regional UK). It's such a blatant scam but Paypal isn't giving me any viable recourse other than sending the scam product to the fake address - which will cost me almost double what I paid in the first place AND I know I won't get a refund because the seller will just say it wasn't received so why would I bother?

[louism2021]

It looks like Paypal wants to look the other way and just wants their percentage.   I told them that my transaction was fraudulent and that the tracking number provided was not mine and they still sided with the scammer.  Don't pay with Paypal.  The buyer has zero protection.  Paypal is now false advertising on their "protection guarantee".  Likely there will be a huge class action lawsuit.  I'll likely join in.  This is quite frustrating that Paypal doesn't fix fraudulent transaction.  Time to contact a lawyers folks unfortunately that's the only way to get to a live person.

[ageonline]

It is obvious that PayPal is not interested in protecting us from these fraudulent activities. Very disappointing! The solution seems to be to go back to our credit card issuer,if so why use PayPal?

[pmk7541]

My thought exactly. I will no longer trust PayPal to protect me and my purchases so I will not use them. They know this is a scam and are escalating it's use by allowing these sellers to get away with it. Telling us to complain to our credit card company,,,,,really?? .

[kernowlass]

@pmk7541 

I don't think paypal said anywhere in this thread to complain to your card issuers.

That was me that told you to consider that option if you got nowhere with a paypal dispute.

As paypal does not cover you for everything and you may lose the dispute OR the item to pricy to return then you have the OPTION to go to your card issuer.

So you're welcome to my FREE ADVICE on giving you as many options as I can to try and get you your money back from your choice of seller.

Having said that even credit cards have terms and conditions and also turn down account holders for some of these scam sales.