Paypals dispute resolution is a joke! DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS

[z-bikes]

  I recently made a purchase and paid using paypal. The item was damaged and not disclosed in the ad. I contacted the seller and he agreed to a partial refund. The refund shows up in my account that day. A week later it disappears apparently because funds weren't available to cover the amount. I contact paypal and go through the resolution process. No response from seller so I escalate it to a claim of "Significantly Not as Described" as per paypal instructions. I go through all the steps to explain the reason for the claim and hit enter. 2 seconds later I get an email stating there is nothing paypal can do so they closed the claim. Nobody even reviewed the claim or read it, just case closed! I contact paypal by phone and the explanation is they can't do anything about purchases made outside of ebay. They will send an email on my behalf but they will not penalize the seller. The only reason they even sent the email is because I called and complained! The seller can do business as usual and still use paypal without any consequences for dishonest trading. Here's a quote from the paypal help pages.

"You can file disputes for Items Not Received (INR), or for items that are Significantly Not as Described (SNAD). However, recovery of any amounts is not guaranteed and is limited to the amounts that PayPal can recover from the seller’s account, even if PayPal makes a final decision in your favor."

        I understand paypal can't make them issue the refund but I can't believe they have no consequences for this type of dishonesty. Going through the process is just a waste of your time!

[plazagirl]

OMG! THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME!! This message board must be new because I don't remember it last year. Which would have been very helpful.

I was using a company online for Nature Favors to drop ship to a customer and that B!$&#ch sent my customer bird seed favors with mold all over them. Twice and on the third time right before the wedding the customer had enough and just through them away. I told thebride i needed them back so i could ship back for a refund, but they were already in the trash. So her fiance ran out to the dumpster took some photos and emailed them and the nature favor vendor would not accept them. So 72 hours before the wedding, i had to figure out another gift for the bride and cover the costs for new favors and lose money on the molded bird seed favors. I lost close to $700 on this order.

I tried contacting the vendor to work it out and she refused. Now I know why because Paypal covers you on this and you can commit these types of acts and not lose any money on it. You are protected if you want to do this.

So YES, I TOTALLY AGREE, THIS DISPUTE RESOLUTION IS A MAJOR JOKE.

i was going to try and file a small claims court judgment against her but it wasn't worth my time and Kharma will get the best of her. It still **bleep** me off till this day and every time i log into paypal.

i even called and spoke with someone over the phone and they were no help. they basically just read off a script and could not offer any advice except to sue on my own.

[z-bikes]

The thing that  kills me is Paypal makes it sound like they are going to help you when in essence they don't do anything. They should just state up front that there isn't any help and you're on your own. I went through several phone calls and filled out all the required forms to be given an immediate answer of; Sorry, nothing we can (or will) do. On the first call I had a rep tell they were going to get my payment back. Total BS!

[lmzeidler]

An “excellent company” would not toss a customer back and forth between separate parts of itself

3:20:04 PM  lmzeidler

Initial Question/Comment: Register to Buy

3:20:09 PM  System

Bryan Vi. has joined this session!

3:20:09 PM  System

Connected with Bryan Vi.

3:20:14 PM  Bryan Vi.

Hello, thanks for waiting and welcome to eBay Live Help! My name is Bryan. How may I help you?

3:20:23 PM  lmzeidler

I had an item listed and the auction ended on September 9 and full payment of $1075 was received on September 9, which was quite admirable. On the same day Buyer sent me an email stating she wanted $390 of that sum refunded because within the span of an hour another bidder had bid the price from $610 to her maximum bid of $1000, then another email on the same day demanding a full refund, or she'd file a dispute. So far all of this on some basis over which eBay had complete control, and she wanted a full refund before I could even put the item in a shipping box, and a rational, intelligent person would not ship such a large item under these circumstances. No ebay seller would spend $75 to ship a 65 lb. item accross the country while the PayPal Process placed a hold on the funds that were to be used to ship it. PayPal even advises not to ship an item unless the funds are cleared. As stated in previous documents from the previous dispute, I did not ship the item pending the outcome of PayPal's review of the issues the buyer raised in the first dispute. I still do not have the results of PayPal's review of the first dispute, just an unexplained cancellation of it and the filing of a new dispute. Now the item has sold again and in addition to being charged the eBay fee again, I was charged the PayPal fee again. I live on SSI and there is a monthly deficit between my monthly check and my rent. I go without food for days at a time and I am supposed to be taking insulin but there is no money for that. And now I have a negative feedback in which she claims I had a shill bidder and I followed the procedure to dispute that and have not heard anything about it. I really feel like I've been kicked in the teeth by eBay. eBay is such a huge company and you don't have to read anything I write. The PayPal system will not let you continue responding unless you click one of three choices: that I prove that I shipped the item, that I refunded the buyers money, or that I am going to refund the Buyer's money.etc., none of which fully and accurately explain the situation. This same limitation seems to be limiting the buyer's choices of how to file the dispute: the first dispute was probably contested as "not as describeb" because that was one of the PayPal options one must click to continue the dispute. Now "item not received" fits the parameters of PayPal's dispute system, so she clicked that button for the latest dispute. The Buyer's issue is still that she wants the item at $610 instead of $1000, and PayPal or eBay have not responded to the issues that I raisedregarding the auction price being final as per the eBay User Agreement, or the handing out of bid retractions like lollipops, which is the true point of contention in this case. It is still my contention that eBay should reimburse the Buyer due to the original issues she raised. If these issues had not existed she would have received the item in a timely manner and would have been able to verify that it was as described. Now the first dispute has been cancelled and a new dispute filed on the basis of non-receipt of item. Now she has not received the item due to the cumbersomeness of the PayPal dispute process. I have yet to find evidence that a sentient, intelligent entity has even read anything I wrote in the first dispute. Did the cancelling of the first dispute mean that the Buyer conceded my point that eBay should be responsible for the issues she raised earlier? Or that eBay has since fixed the problem so it cannot occur again?

3:22:04 PM  Bryan Vi.

Please hold on a moment while I read that information.

3:25:14 PM  Bryan Vi.

I'd be happy to help you with this, Can I call you by your first name?

3:25:44 PM  lmzeidler

My first name is Larry. That would be fine.

3:26:15 PM  Bryan Vi.

Thank you Larry. Aside from this issue, is there anything else that you would like me to check for you?

3:27:07 PM  Bryan Vi.

Can I have the item number?

3:27:33 PM  lmzeidler

Nothing else. If you could just arrange to have me not be charged the eBay fee and the PayPal fee from the first "sale" of the item, I think that would be the best to hope for at this point. Thanks.

3:28:20 PM  lmzeidler

I am looking for it.

3:30:28 PM  Bryan Vi.

Larry upon checking. You need to contact PayPal for this issue.

3:31:02 PM  Bryan Vi.

Larry you can reach PayPal customer support by phone at Login, Click "Contact Us", Click "Customer Service Center" (U.S. number).They are open between 4:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. (Pacific Time), Monday to Friday and 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. (Pacific time) on Saturday and Sunday. You can also reach them through the following link: https://www.paypal.com/ewf/f=ebay_pp

3:31:21 PM  lmzeidler

Okay. Can you send me a message when you hear back from them. 

3:31:45 PM  Bryan Vi.

Well for that you will be receiving an email.

3:32:44 PM  Bryan Vi.

Now that I have helped you with your issue, I would like to thank you for contacting eBay Live Help! Have a great day! To close this chat window, go ahead and click on the "Exit" button whenever you're ready.

3:33:39 PM  lmzeidler

.Paypal has already been unhelpful to the max and only compounded my frustration with them.

3:34:09 PM  Bryan Vi.

You can call their contact support number I have provided you.

3:34:48 PM  lmzeidler

That’s what I have ben doing for the past six weeks, to no avail.

3:36:35 PM  Bryan Vi.

You only need to wait for the line. We have been having a lot of members recently. Due to the coming holidays.

3:37:31 PM  lmzeidler

I have gotten through to them and they don't do anything except refer me to eBay for assistance.

3:39:11 PM  Bryan Vi.

You can tell them that the case is opened thru PayPal.

3:39:34 PM  Bryan Vi.

That's why you called them.

3:40:58 PM  lmzeidler

Ebay owns PayPal. That means eBay is in charge of PayPal and PayPal answers to eBay. What part of they referred me to eBay isn't clear?

3:44:37 PM  Bryan Vi.

As much as I want to help you I can't open the case. Because it was a PayPal case.

3:47:37 PM  lmzeidler

PayPal and eBay are a vertically integrated business combination [in violation of the Sherman Anti-trust Act]. The Chairman of eBay can call PayPal and throw the fear of God into someone over there to get some form of intelligent responsiveness out of them.

3:49:19 PM  Bryan Vi.

Larry I understand how frustrating it can be. I would really need you to contact PayPal for this matter.

3:49:35 PM  lmzeidler

The Item # is 250691192730

3:50:10 PM  Bryan Vi.

Thank you for that information Larry.

3:50:42 PM  lmzeidler

How many times to I need to tell you that I have contacted PayPal a half dozen times and they keep telling me that I need to contact eBay???????

3:52:16 PM  Bryan Vi.

Upon checking here the case is already closed larry.

3:52:16 PM  Bryan Vi.

Larry*

3:53:20 PM  lmzeidler

So re-open it. It was closed because they took so long to respond to me.

3:55:52 PM  Bryan Vi.

You are the one who needs to re-open it. Since it will ask for your username and password. You can check the case to eBay.com, then go to 'help' click on 'Resolution Center'.

3:56:22 PM  Bryan Vi.

You will see there 1 case closed.

3:57:56 PM  Bryan Vi.

You will also see there that you will be directed to PayPal.

3:58:41 PM  lmzeidler

Then I have to go through the clicking of canned reasons for the dispute again, get the same untimely automated responses to the dispute, etc., when some one at eBay can just credit my account for the eBay and PayPal fees. I am just now getting a reponse from eBay to a message I sent six weeks ago. It is telling that you referred to PayPal as “it.” That really explains sooooo much.

4:03:34 PM  Bryan Vi.

Yes. And with that you will be directed to PayPal since you are re-opening a case which was created on PayPal.

4:06:54 PM  lmzeidler

It would be much easier and faster to sue eBay in small claims court. I still have not gotten a response to my request to remove the negative feed back. The buyer claimed I had a shill bidder because the other bidder bid 18 times and eBay let him retract his final bid which is what she was complaining to me about. PayPal did not address this issue and still won't if the case is re-opened because it is something eBay did.

4:11:01 PM  Bryan Vi.

The best resolution I can give you is contact PayPal. Since the case was opened to them.

4:12:54 PM  lmzeidler

This is totally, pathetically unbelievable. EBay claims to be an "excellent" company. An “excellent company” would not toss a customer back and forth between separate parts of itself. They would just own up to their mistake, fix it, and move on.

4:19:32 PM  Bryan Vi.

There are no other options I can provide for you since the case was opened thru PayPal. I am only trained in eBay and not on PayPal.

4:21:58 PM  Bryan Vi.

It looks like we've lost you. If you still need help, please email our support group through this link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/index.html. Thank you for using eBay!

[wrthit09]

eBay stinks anyway!  Shame on you PayPal for not supporting YOUR customer!

[Kjelstad]

as long as they send you "something" paypal does not care.

[jctjr99902]

You are right.  Big joke.  I went through the complete process and they ruled in my FAVOR and stated I was entitled to a full refund and would get a credit of 0 from paypal.   SO IN THE PROCESS I HAVE LOST $575 DOLLARS BY USING THEIR PAYMENT SYSTEM AND GET NO HELP ON ANY TYPE OF REFUND.  PAYPAL IS A JOKE.  AS EVERYONE STATED THEY PROMISE WITH A TEASE AND DO NOT PROVIDE ANY HELP EXCEPT LIP SERVICE.  DON'T THINK I WILL USE THEM ANY MORE. 

[lyn1136]

Ditto to everything you said.  Same situation.  Paypal is a toothless tiger.  Sellers are getting away with murder!  They don't have to send another item, but they have the returned item safely tucked away!  They have their money and eo not have to deliver.  Who is fraudulent here?  Not just the seller, but he who poses as an adjudicator.

[profdata]

There is no Paypal Buyer Protection for SNAD complaints for no ebay purchases.  Yours was not an ebay purchase, so once it was escalated to a claim it closed out because of the lack of coverage

[lyn1136]

Thanks for telling me, Prodata.  I does seem insincere for Paypal to advertise its security and coverage but to not tell the customers that only eBay gets preferred service.  Would it be so difficult for them to use a caveat?   Methinks 99% of the buyers would assume what I did, that I was also covered even though it was not eBay.