Buyer posted false claim, won't communicate

[tleehouse]

Buyer purchased 7 bottles of cologne, claims he only received 4 bottles.  We wrapped all them separately in bubble wrap.  My guess is he didn't unwrap all bottles and threw away the other 3 by mistake or is just filing a false claim to get his money back.  Buyer will not respond to any of our emails to him, such as what bottles did he receive or was the box open when delivered.  In the meantime, PayPal is holding funds in our account until the dispute is settled.  I know this buyer is lying, I wouldn't fraud anyone, but if he will not respond, what will be the outcome?  If PayPal gives him his money back will he have to ship something back to us?  I am hoping PayPal will see there is no communication and that should tell them that the buyer is lying, but this is the first claim for us.  I also saw in the buyer history that he just purchased another lot of colognes, this time 10 bottles, and he paid a lot less for these, so I am wondering if he is upset that he thinks he paid too much for the 7 we sold to him.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I know he is lying, but how can I get PayPal to see this?????

[surplusdealdude]

I know this buyer is lying

You don't know anything of the sort.  You know he has filed a dispute.  That's all.

State in the dispute that he may have a refund after he ships the bottles back with tracking.  Emphasize that the bottles must be returned before refunding - the dispute drones aren't too swift sometimes and they need the dots put really close together.

If the buyer wants to spring for courier delivery of the items back to you, then he's likely not lying.

[tleehouse]

Yes....I know he is lying.  I know how many bottles we packaged up and shipped to him.  I would have to say if I was promised 7 bottles and only received 4, I would be communicating with the seller....every day to resolve the issue.  This person will not respond to any of our emails.  I think he is sitting there waiting for the dispute to be settled by PayPal in his favor, and he probably is thinking he does not need to respond.  Anyone that is being honest would try to work it out.  Sure we could aks for him to ship the product back, however, he will only ship four bottles, and I know I sent him 7.  Either way we get ripped off by this loser.  He stated in the dispute nothing about sending anything back, just that he wants his money back.  Will PayPal make him send the product back if they refund his money?  I really hope they don't side with this creep.  I don't like dishonest people, and it seems to be more and more on eBay and Craigslist.

[surplusdealdude]

No , you don't know.

You know how many were shipped - you have no way of knowing how many the buyer received.

The package could have been broken open in transit and perhaps they caught it before all of the bottles were smashed.

Calling your buyer a liar when you do not have the facts to support that will not help you settle this matter, it will only harden the positions.

A professional demeanor is always required.

[tleehouse]

Okay....let's say the box was damaged...don't you think he would have stated that in the claim process if that were in fact the case?  And if that was the case, I would truly be more than happy to provide him a refund, or go to USPS and file a claim....but he didn't mention that the box was damaged at all.  I have emailed him several times asking him if the box arrived with damage or opened and also I asked him what bottles he did receive.  He just simply will not communicate with us.  It's hard to settle something when you get no response and they just want their money. 

And I am not aruging with you....I thank you for your thoughts, you have been helpful, but I am still a little miffed that he won't email us to get the matter settled.  Any ideas what I should put in the email to get him to respond to us?

Thanks

[surplusdealdude]

No, I doubt the buyer would mention it - it's irrelevant to HIS claim.  He is only concerned that he is missing some of the product that you ordered.

Now stop trying to prove that you are right over things that do not matter and deal with the claim.

[saffronmc]

Have you got proof of the weight of the items as 4 bottles are likely to weigh a lot less than 7. I would try and question this both with paypal and the buyer.

[raburdine]

Just as always, even when we take video footage of the packaging, record all service doccumentation showing serial numbers, part numbers, and results of diagnostics... You Paypal PEOPLE if that is what you call yourselves... ONLY support buyers... BAD or not. You have created a environment where it is more acceptable to VICTIMIZE the sellers and you ONLY question the sellers. I have been both a seller and buyewr for over 4 years and your conduct in enforcing PAYPAL policies is slanted and one sided and NEVER CONSISTENT from one case to the next. My disputed items have sent the items back with CHANGED HARDWARE AND NON-MATCHING SERIALS, Missing parts or severely damaged due to cases being decided in our favor... BUT EVEN THEN... WHEN  DECIDED IN OUR FAVOR.. We have no recourse or protection from fraud or vendictive acts like mentioned previously.... CONGRADULATIONS, you are now one of the worlds most hated professionals. A PAYPAL CUSTOMER SERVICE REP. WE no longer have a safe environment to trade or sell in due to your descriminatory actions and selective enforcment of policies and protections. All I have to say when I buy something to make the seller LOSE IMMEDIATELY.. EVEN if I am lying.. Is say it is not as described after I have stolen parts, damaged it , and taken a pee on the item and sent it backkk... I would still get my money back like the claim the guy just filed with me. ADMITS  HE's LYING ON PRIVATE EMAIL, but WHAT THE HECK DOES PAYPAL CARE..., NOT A BIT... You should all be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!!!!!

[Citizen_Z]

I know that this thread has been out for awhile, but I still felt like providing my opinion. I feel sympathy for the seller and do feel that the behavior of the buyer is unreasonable. Although I agree that there is no concrete evidence that the buyer is attempting to defraud the seller (yet), the actions of the buyer are suspicious.  If the buyer has actually accused the seller of outright mail fraud, without attempting to communicate with the seller, and immediately opened a claim, that does seem odd. Yet again, it is not concrete proof.

The likely conclusion of this scenerio is that that the seller ends up with four bottles of cologne and the buyer keeps the money. The seller should take measures to prevent this from happening in the future. The seller will not win this case unless the buyer is dumb enough to mail back a box of rocks via UPS. (Even then the seller would need video of the box arriving via UPS and being opened).

First, the bottles should not be arranged in such a way that it a buyer could easily make the mistake of throwing a few away. Second, if the cologne is really expensive the seller should consider getting signed affidivats from witnesses stating that a certain quantity of a certain weight was mailed a postal center at a certain date. Video documation doesn't hurt either.

There needs to be a machanism or safegaurd to protect sellers from buyers who pull these scams, but currently none exists that I am aware of. For this reason sellers should think twice before selling items through these channels if they cannot cover the costs.

Update:

For those who are uninformed:

1. You can scan documents and photo evidence and upload them to image shack and provide the direct links to the supervisors at the dispute resolution service (in the comments section).

2. You can upload video to youtube and provide links to supervisors at the dispute resolution service (in the comments section). They may say they cannot view them, but if it looks like the situation may escalate to a legal action between the buyer and seller there are higher agents who WILL look at the video.

3. You can appeal a decision.

4. Paypal is required to adhere to laws governing financial transactions, this is especially clear when the buyer and seller are from the same country.

5. The more documentation that you have, the less inclined PayPal specialists will be to dismiss your assertions.

6. You will also find that if a buyer attempts to rip you off, there is usually a pattern of the buyer doing exactly the same thing with other sellers, which causes PayPal to LOSE MONEY. PayPal representatives know this and investigate such claims to prevent PayPal from losing its own money and customers.

7. A video or legal affidavit can be faked. So can a living will, a dollar bill, or a driver's license. That is completely irrelevent. The idea that someone would risk committing felony mail fraud over a single transaction by going through the ridiculous trouble of faking a video is laughable. Such a person would easily be exposed and caught.

[ScrappyHappy]

Paypal agents have  a lot of work and need to move quickly to get disputes closed so they're not going to start checking video or signed affidavits (anyone could fake sign something).

Since sellers can no longer leave negative feedback to buyers it  is one less method that we can use to weed out problem buyers. There is one useful tool to see all the negative feedback a buyer has left. Check it out:

http://www.toolhaus.org