PayPal supports scam sellers but not those scammed

[Ollers]

Hi, I am posting this here on the PayPal community to help other buyers, who like me thought they were protected by PayPal when using a credit card. Unfortunately, the PayPal process is set up to strongly favour fraudulent and corrupt sellers. I will share my experience of the PayPal process. 1. I ordered an item on Instagram. 2. I paid using PayPal and my credit card. 3. I realised moments after something wasn’t right. 4. Researched online and saw from the comments on Trust Pilot and their Facebook page that it was a scam. Literally every comment declared it a scam. I provided this info to PayPal in my dispute claim. See Trust Pilot page below: https://ie.trustpilot.com/review/murray-dublin.com 5. I immediately cancelled, or more accurately I cancelled 5 mins after ordering. I provided PayPal with proof of this. 6. Below are the issues that I raised and provided evidence of to PayPal: a. The company advertised as being a family run business based in Dublin and sells Irish made leather bags. i. It is not based in Dublin but in China ii. The goods are not as described I.e. they are not Irish hand made leather bags. They are Chinese made and per comments online are made of plastic b. The company advertise there is 24hr window to cancel order. i. They do not honour this as I cancelled within 5 mins of ordering and they sent it anyway. - While PayPal agreed that I had provided enough proof and that the company was a scam. They said they would not do a chargeback but that I should return the item and ask the scammers for a refund. And this is why Paypal’s process enables fraudulent companies. These sham companies know if they set up a website falsely claiming it to be in the EU and send the item PayPal will tell the buyer to return it. But: 1. It is expensive to send packages by registered post to China. These companies know this and exploit the seriously flawed PayPal process to their advantage. 2. Why would I spend good money after bad when obviously if they are a sham they are not going to refund me. This is not a legit company. They are not trading on reputation. The reason they sent it regardless of it being cancelled is because they know that if they send it PayPal will tell the seller to return it and ask for a refund. But who’s going to do that and lose more money. So that’s it. PayPal are asking me to waste more money and send back the plastic bags to a China. No chargeback, even though they acknowledge the company is fraudulent and I have been scammed. No block on the company, so they can continue to fraud others. I share my experience to warn others. PayPal does not protect the buyer even in the most egregious and obvious of cases.

[kernowlass]

@Ollers 

Chinese Web Sites or on Social Media ads easy to spot (once you know the below signs) so buyer beware.

Paypal would not be able to check every individual seller / merchant / company in over 200 countries worldwide that adds paypal to their website to accept payments.

So they give some buyer and some seller protection. However that protection can never be a 100% coverall so you need to read it so you can risk assess your transactions.

They do stop bad companies from using Paypal when enough claims start rolling in.
However as they are in China (mostly) then its easy for them to just start over with a new name, so stopping them does not really do anything.

The best thing is to not buy from them in the first place, to recognise them -

1. No return address on the returns policy. The site will look as if its in your country (where they despatch goods from) but they will ask for returns to go back to China (returns depot) at a shipping cost often more than the item is worth.
2. No contact telephone number. if you click on contact the most you will get is webmail or an email address.
3. Rarely company address information.
4. Great pictures of items at bargain prices that turn out to be tat.
5. Fake reviews.
6. Google and you can often see previous company names as they change them once enough claims roll in and Paypal stop them using their services and start over.
7. Send fake tracking numbers to win item non receipt of item claims.

Maybe do your research before buying tat from these Social Media websites that advertise mostly China companies.

[Aman54]

Surely anyone who needs to receive payment would require verification? 

[kernowlass]

@Aman54 

They can verify their paypal account yes.

However paypal is not going to be able to check every single individual seller / merchant or business in over 200 countries worldwide !!!

That is why they give 'some' buyer and 'some' seller protection and the rest is up to us to risk assess our transactions. 

[Cydios]

I posted this a short moment ago. So.. I got scammed by a seller in China. It wasn't a significant amount of money, but it's the principle that matters. After disputing the charge, the seller responded by providing a tracking number, only after I initiated the dispute through PayPal. The tracking number showed my correct street but not the house number due to privacy reasons. This scam works by sending the package to another house on the street, likely containing an empty box or a rock, so the tracking shows "delivery made to [street name]."

I confirmed with a USPS agent that the house number was incorrect, but they couldn't disclose the actual house number. When I initially opened the dispute, the refund was sent back to my bank. However, the seller won the dispute with the fraudulent USPS information, and the charge reappeared on my PayPal balance.

I contacted PayPal's assistant and eventually spoke to a live person. Unfortunately, the system doesn't provide an option to fully explain the situation, offering only a few predefined options. The seller offered a refund if I returned the item to China, even though the tracking showed it came from Michigan. The PayPal agent didn't seem to understand my issue and advised me to dispute it through my bank, despite my repeated explanations that the charge was on my PayPal account. When I asked to escalate the issue, I was ignored. It felt like they were responding with canned responses without really listening to my concerns. 

I don't want any penny to go to this scammer. The charge was a little over 50.00. Again not a big deal to me, but paypal doesn't back the consumer.. only the seller. 

[kernowlass]

@Cydios 

Read my above post?

[Cydios]

My response has nothing to do with your explanation. It was a sharing of experience and paypals protection is flawed. Usps doesn't provide the house address within their tracking, but yet it was allowed as proof. Arguably it's a usps issue as well. At that point, protection is fake if there's a hole in the whats excepted.

[kernowlass]

@Cydios 

Well lots of folks have followed what I posted and obtained refunds, but up to you if you don't want to.

You do not have to get the courier company to say where the item was delivered to, just something in writing to say it was NOT delivered to your address.

[Lolita_Flamenco]

Please read my post and tell me what do you suggest then?

[theidleone]

As the title says PayPal supports scammers but not those that get scammed. Anyone who falls for the payment terms from a scammer as send money reason Friends and Family know that within the terms for a dispute PayPal do not issue a case for dispute if the payment is made to an individual or business as the reason Friends and Family. Perhaps PayPal is receiving a percentage from such scammers and this is a work around to decline a dispute.