What if you're disputing FRAUD???

[kramyugtaht]

I work in banking and so I understand there are systems in place and you have procedures around it, but it SICKENS me that this industry makes people wait when you are literally reporting a clear fraudulent issue like WITHIN 1 HOUR and Paypals website doesn't let you. I'll see what the human agent says tomorrow but it's become clear the website I placed an order on is fraudulent. The way the system is set up I wonder if any reasonable human will review the evidence or make you wait for a package that will obviously NOT ARRIVE. And so companies like Paypal tells you to go away until it's out of pending and actually cleared when you KNOW it shouldn't? At least there's the credit card company so I suggest people try to stop it at that level because I don't trust Paypal. Even if it is standard practice it doesn't make it right. We're telling you EARLY, pretty much RIGHT AFTER.

[kernowlass]

@kramyugtaht 

Paypal covers you for non receipt of item OR item received but not as described.

They also cover you for unauthorised transactions where you were hacked and someone else made the transaction.

In this case you voluntarily made the transaction and none of the above apply. Also if its pending then you can't raise a dispute yet.

Paypal does not cover buyer remorse so if the item does not arrive you can open a dispute for item not received.

Yes you can also go to your credit card but their investigation is often a lot longer....approx 90 days.

[kramyugtaht]

***NOTICE: Even though Paypal opened a dispute they did NOT ASK FOR ANY INFORMATION. I could have easily pointed out many things but I don't even see it reflected on the website yet nor an email confirmation.***

*** #2 - The so called  "dispute" is "sharing the information with the "seller" or SCAMMER. Once again Paypal IGNORES THE EVIDENCE. **

I think the information you're providing is misleading. While the technical time frame may be 90 days for an investigation by the CC company it is typical to be provided provisional credit even though it is not finalized. Your first statement of item not received or not as described also begs the question of what the expected time frame is. I would be willing to bet any CC company will provide the provisional credit far before the shipping time that you would be FORCED to wait for given  the way you are framing it, which is really not news frankly.

And again I will point out to the community or anyone with common sense: This ignore the evidence it is fraud and if you ignore that, then it simply goes against common sense to wait for something to arrive when there are literally many telltale signs this is fraudulent and WE ALREADY KNOW IT WON'T HAPPEN.

Bottom line is, according to what you're saying Paypal doesn't cover you in this scenario, which IS FRAUD, even if it is more convenient for you to categorize it as "buyer remorse" and in fact forces you to wait in this period when something could be done, essentially wasting time going against what we already know. You perspective would prompt people go go against all evidence this is a fraudulent situation and waste time, and yet you try to quote the textbook 90 days and ignore the fact and does not mention provisional credit is given.

This is why I don't trust Paypal.

[kramyugtaht]

So ONLY after pressing the second phone rep did they say "I can upload documentation" but when copying and pasting links in the Message to 'seller' (aka fraudster), (which is not directly to Paypal for review but they say they would look at that conversation) it censors email addresses and URL. Basically you have to do all this labor and Paypal may just pay a LITTLE attention to it down the line.

And also they only say "after 7 days case will be closed" - only after pressing do they tell me I can escalate at that point and I have 14 days to do so, nobody explains that process so initially it sounds like you have to do it ON THE 7TH DAY and of course I still don't see it in writing, I have to take the word of the rep Mitch. Consumers don't work at Paypal we can't read their minds or have what they might have as common knowledge as implicit.

Basically there's all this that can be done to work on it, even if the consumer does so for themselves but the default superficial answer is "hurry up and wait" without mentioning important time frames unless pressed.

[kernowlass]

@kramyugtaht 

My information is perfectly correct, however your last 2 posts have so many flaws and incorrect information in them I don't know where to start.

Most folks handle the dispute process pretty easily, its certainly not rocket science !!! 

[kramyugtaht]

I said you omitted the fact that credit card companies will provide *provisional credit*, that's not a matter of whether your information is correct but rather important information left out for context. As I said it's simply misleading if you're going to make a point comparing the PayPal process with credit card companies, and any who has gone through the process before knows that's something they do offer. As far as that goes does PayPal offer provisional credit? Doesn't look like it but if so at what point? Much of the rest is simply the information I got directly from talking to a PayPal rep, so if that part is incorrect then I was provided with wrong information. I've had one claim with provisional credit in the past, the bank I work for also offers it so that is not going to be inaccurate - but a broad statement like "so many I don't know where to start" is just a conversation stopper if anything.

[kramyugtaht]

So this last reply doesn't add anything since you didn't address at least one point that you claim is incorrect, but imply stupidity on my part with the second part of the comment of "it's not rocket science." I think you fail to read the situation for what it is overall, when people experience fraud they are emotional which is a different issue. Also many companies aside from PayPal route the support request away from chat or another recorded medium, if the goal is clarity then at least a follow up with a *complete * step by step in writing makes sense rather than verbally saying things that at some point pop into the phone reps head during the conversation. (and Again, only having pressed by asking very specific questions rather than them volunteering that information to begin with) So again, thats my experience in having to speak with two reps. What part of that is inaccurate and how would you know unless you have access to a log of the conversation when that probably doesn't even exist but only notes they typed about the conversation if anything? If it's not a question of what they said to me and it's documented as different elsewhere by PayPal where is that? Otherwise I'm just going with something someone wrote in a forum online and that goes back to the point about having something in writing. 

[kramyugtaht]

And if it's a chat log with a PayPal rep I can hold them to it and be accountable, but if it's a community user on the forum I can't, can I?

tldr;

So how about this: Is there a document that has the COMPLETE process, like after the seller doesn't respond or doesn't respond with expected info like a tracking number, at each step if this, then Paypal does that or the user does this and that. Then we can see what's what. I can tell you now it's going to be a matter of either saying something different or leaving out certain details compared to the two calls I made to PayPal. Is it unreasonable to want to know what to expect? Otherwise it would kind of waste everybody's time by calling yet again at the next step because the response didn't include it in the first place, and if there's a limited time frame that's an important piece of information to know isn't it?

[kernowlass]

@kramyugtaht 

Try HELP top of page, got guides and help for every issue on paypal.

[kramyugtaht]

It's hard NOT to - that's the first thing the chat bot directs you to when you chat after hours as you probably know.

If anything I suspect the issue is most people don't look for the whole process as if it's one big flowchart, and they seem to write the knowledge base accordingly and instead of going for being all inclusive and comprehensive, it's this voting system with separate bits of information on whether it's helpful. If that's the case, then people need to piece it together. Of course I bet some places the employee training is perhaps not much better and the rep has to learn over time and just sort of gets thrown into answering the phone with minimal backup info.