paypal closed my case before the day ended

[ReefDucky]

This is the second time I have been in a ridiculous situation with Paypal in the past year. I want to first say that the ONLY reason I use Paypal is for consumer PROTECTION. They have failed me yet again in protecting me from scams and in this circumstance, I believe THEY are the scam!

HIGHLIGHTS: I received a product from a merchant on October 23rd and immediately did as Paypal requested and sent a request directly to the merchant's customer service. After 4 emails, I realized that the merchant was not willing to be helpful in the least and disputed the transaction directly through Paypal. I did so on November 8th. After filling out all the requested info and attaching pictures, videos, reviews, I realized that Paypal was NOT dealing with my case. It was sent directly to the seller. In my opinion, this is a tactic to "pass the buck" and people that are just trying to dispute a transactions in the most simplest form might miss the fact that they aren't dealing direct with Paypal and miss an opportunity to have their case seen by an actual Paypal moderator or dispute analyst.  Moving on...... I checked in EVERY DAY to see if the seller had responded. The notice stated that it is recommended that I give the seller until NOVEMBER 28th to respond. The seller offered me a $8 refund on the 25th, which I of course refused as the product is NOT what I ordered (doesn't look anything like it) and provided them video of the product failing, does not work as directed (they actually told me to ignore the instructions on the packaging in order to make the product "work better" which it didn't anyways), AND this crappy stuff cost me $61.99USD!!!!

This morning, as per my calendar notifcation NOVEMBER 28th, I logged in to formally dispute the transaction directly with Paypal rather than the seller. I provided all the details again and clicked submit (or whatever the option was to "send) and a notifcation popped up that the case is closed and Paypal filed in the seller's favor!!!  I immediately went to appeal the case as per the options that I Googled.  NO option to appeal nor was there any otehr way to do ANYTHING. I try to report another issue, like HEY PAYPAL....do as you're supposed to and protect YOUR customers, but nothing.  I went to the chat, which just like most chats was TOTALLY USELESS and a huge waste of time.  Just kept telling me that I am unable to appeal for "various reasons", but no option to escalate or otherwise.  When I try to click on the purchase protection option, i get kicked out of the app to a policy screen.  When I try to file another claim, I also get booted out.

Our postal system is on strike in Canada and it's almost Christmas, so snail mail is NOT optional.  So I finally figured out how to call them direct and was provided with a code that I need to enter in order to get through.  I can provide all call logs and a screen recording of what happens when I call the number provided, but end result is you can't get through no matter what.  The line picks up and hangs up immediately.

All of this combined (paired with my last dispute case which was also a HUGE scam and tons of relevant evidence was provided in that circumstance as well, but no use in putting that here) tells me that Paypal has ZERO interest in actually protecting their customers in any way.  I will contunue to do everything possible to rectify this transaction as it is simply a SCAM and is unethical and immoral to take people's hard earned money with nothing in return. Times are hard enough without being forced to pay out for CRAP and SCAM PRODUCTS.  And that is what they are doing is supporting these scams.

I urge Paypal to reconsider their business practices and stop perpetuating these fraudsters!  If anyone can help me in getting ANYWHERE with this, it would be greatly appreciated!  

I contacted this company requesting a refund on the 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th. I have offered to return product immediately. Below is a video of me using the product by THEIR suggestion. As you can see, doesn't look anything like the product I ordered, nor does it adhere to my nail or harden as described. [removed]

I have also included one of MANY review sites that report them as a scam.

[kernowlass]

@ReefDucky 

The dispute stage is for negotiations between buyer and seller so you are right paypal does not get involved then.

However you can escalate a dispute to a claim whenever you want as long as 7 days has passed since payment.

You have ''up to'' 20 days to escalate to a claim from when you opened the dispute.

If you did not escalate within that timeframe then the dispute would auto-close in the sellers favour.

Sounds as if you thought the 28th was the time you could escalate rather than the time when the dispute would close as you didn't escalate it?

[Carl0087]

As in my other comment below, I similarly thought I had until the date specified to escalate, AND that escalation could only happen if no resolution was possible. The seller, in my instance, was avoidant and said they would have to check things etcetc, which means they made no attempt even offer a resolution yet. I haven't received the items, they gave a fake tracking number, all of which I attached to the claim for proof only 2 days ago. I thought responding with this information was doing the "response to the case" that PayPal's app notification stated! Arghhh... PayPal: please improve your language and communications

[ReefDucky]

@Carl0087 seems like your case should go smoothly and in the past, up until this year actually, most of my experiences with Paypal were positive.  But now they are acting scummy and rubby and now seem to be more interested in supporting scammer than their customers.  I'm guessing there is money to be made by going to the dark side as often as possible!  I would still urge you to make a note of the poor communication and terminolgy.  I really hope they do the right thing for you!

[ReefDucky]

@kernowlass yes, that is a correct statement.  When it says I have UNTIL November 28th AAAAAANNNNND Paypal SPECIFICALLY requests that you allow the seller until the 28th to reply, the 28th would be the end date.  As I filed on Nov 8th at whatever time, the timeframe of 20 days should be 20 legal calendar days.  Now if they wanted to get me on the exact time frame to the minute of 20days, fine.  But they haven't.  And not that my arguement is with you at all, but just so that I'm clear on terminolgy understanding for the greater public.....

Sale ENDS November 28th!  ....does it end on the 27th?  No.

We are CLOSING November 28th! .......does the business close on the 27th?  No.

ONLY AVAILABLE UNTIL November 28th. ...... if you show up on the 28th, it's available.

Return Flight November 28th ......I'm not getting on a plane on the 27th.  

I do have a contract lawyer looking into this for me (I work in real estate so they're on staff.  I'm not spending more money on this craziness!) but at first glance, he feels that this is fraudulent and the fact that Paypal has prevented me from being able to contact anyone is against the Consumer Protection Act of Canada

[Carl0087]

This *exact* same thing happened to me today, too!! I had been exchanging with the seller, providing receipts of emails and evidence of scam, and the seller kept putting off responding. Because I was waiting for their response (which took 10 days for their first reply!), and was under the impression that PayPal was investigating the claim. The notification from the app says "your response is needed for a case. Visit the resolution centre and respond before 29/11". Reading this suggests that I simply needed to RESPOND to the seller (who themselves said in the last message they would "let me know", ergo there was nothing to respond to), NOT that I needed to escalate it. The email from PayPal also stated "This case will automatically close on 29 November 2024 **if you can't reach an agreement with the seller** and if the case isn't escalated." Because the seller was delaying communication, I of course couldn't be in a position to reach agreement. The "and" in the email text also implies that BOTH conditions must be met - no agreement AND escalated - when clearly this is false. This is misleading language, PayPal! I also responded to the seller merely 2 days ago (which per the language in the app notification was a "response" in my view), and nowhere on the app was it clear where or how to escalate the case. I'm SO frustrated. I will be requesting a charge back and challenging via my credit card/bank instead. I was told PayPal had good processes in place for consumers and potential scams, but clearly not. (I acknowledge I misread some things, but the language in PayPal communication was absolutely not specific, and it is deeply unfair that claim closures such as these cannot be easily challenged or re-opened.)

[kernowlass]

@Carl0087 

OR you could do what most other folks do and read up on how it works?

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cshelp/article/how-do-i-open-a-dispute-with-a-seller-HELP160

[Carl0087]

@kernowlass I already did. But cheers.

[kernowlass]

@Carl0087 

Then it seems odd you didn't escalate to a claim then as it clearly tells you how and when in that link I posted.