PayPal and FB Marketplace -watch out everyone

[TheBluePill108]

I purchased two items from facebook marketplace in March 2021 listed as two different companies using two different company names. After two months waiting for the products, a month even for tracking numbers, and with ONE of the sellers writing back and fourth to my complaints (I cc'd PayPal each time) about BOTH items, I decided to google these random email addresses to find the embarressingly ridiculous amount of people warning about their stores online and their items being a total scam... for years now. There's a lot here so let me unpack this: Firstly, why is PayPal still working with them? Are we supposed to trust PayPal when they continue agreements collecting and distributing money for even just THIS company? I received a refund for both items, eventually but beforehand it occurred to me there is likely a way bigger scam going on then just these two items I thought I was buying. Being paid back just the other day might even be a part of it. Secondly, I can't imagine not warning everyone, not telling PayPal and FB shame on you for sponsoring these companies and their items continually. I am VERY suspicious of SOME greater purpose these sellers have and here are a few reasons why: I guess as long as a seller submits a valid tracking number to PayPal, PayPal adheres to the "dispute by this date" with the buyer (?) These sellers added valid tracking numbers existing to actual items they shipped to me, even listing the weight listed on their ads and in POUNDS. Either paypal in on it OR paypals guidelines for "adding tracking" needs serious updating. Two months after I purchased these two items that, without a doubt weigh NO LESS than 10 pds. for one and a possible weight of over 50 pds for the other, I did receive two packages. Both  listed the tracking numbers submitted and accepted by PayPal and listed the sale item as what I purchased. In essence, these two items fulfilled the sellers obligation to PayPal and they can postpone a dispute against them too soon because they did ship items. Because they are coming from overseas and the seller communicates as PayPal encourages us to do with buyers directly first, I received many reply emails that were very obviously autonomically generated saying things like "please forgive, its covid, so sorry, it is on its way - 10 days, 12, 15, up to 3-5 weeks" and so on. I obviously and temporarily lost my mind that I would even clicking BUY on either item but it was very obvious to see they were stalling by communicating with me. As we know, sellers email you through PayPal and as long as they keep you going and tracking numbers are entered with PayPal....essentially, the seller is occupying the buyer until you are PAST the PayPal "dispute by" date. So it looks as if the seller did what they said they'd do - PayPal did what they said they'd do - and the buyer is **bleep**. What did the seller use as the trackable item to pass through these obviously giant PayPal loop holes? Two months later I received TWO battery operated mini plastic toothbrushes.... in place of a vertical stand mixer and an outdoor daybed - and a missed dispute deadline so pay pal can wash their hands of it all. You can't even write to PayPal just to tell them THIS so I am writing it here to warn other buyers to be careful. I DO worry about the real ramifications here though - simply because there is no way this scam is worth it for overseas sellers! They pay shipping, send a $1.00 or $2 toothbrushes for example as the decoy and all of the automation time with their emails lol. And for what?? They are selling a stand mixer and giant outdoor daybed for $36.00 and $41.00 (I know. I am very embarrassed! what was I thinking?? Temp insanity. Don't judge 😉 NO chance all of that is worth making 30 and 40 bucks! After their shipping cost, customs paperwork and fake items that they claim was a "mistake" after two months? What could they walk away with.... $20.00 American dollars? Something else is abrewin'. Identify theft, selling peoples info, hacking accounts...something and I don't know which. So, I contacted both my banks and put alerts on all overseas charges and alerts on each of the sellers (even though they are the same exact company) so they are on a beware list with the cards I use to pay that PayPal had. Another sketchy and telling thing is that one refund was listed how we would expect it to be: w/ a reference, a mention of "PayPal". But the other refund, I used a different account to pay, doesn't include any mention of "PayPal" at all on the refund. And suddenly the company itself has the ability to refund me and my bank directly? Its the only thing I can THINK of at this point - they are up to something ELSE - too many things to name but I can say: I removed all of my payments options on my PayPal until PayPal protects buyers by at least removing sellers you can GOOGLE to see story after story, year after year of people everywhere saying "its a scam" "don't do it" "don't go near this company" etc etc. Shame on ME for not doing the research prior and shame on FB and PayPal as I said above for NOT refusing to do business with them and for not extending dispute dates and figuring out that somewhere down the road when I least expect it these two companies will likely be at the helm of some sort of misconduct and it will be too late for so many more of us. Not cool. Yes, these two companies claiming to be one company did refund me but if you saw the amount of emails and work I had to do to make them aware I would not just let the dispute date come and I would go....I realize I am better off paying sellers directly if thats the case. What are we paying PayPal FOR? at least "Google" your sellers and buyers, PayPal! Really, PayPal and FB Marketplace? NOW, after receiving two mini toothbrushes from china, the tracking numbers with the correct weights of my purchase's that allowed my orders to be marked  "shipped" according to PayPal, when I "track" the items using the original tracking numbers that used to say "On the way" don't say "arrived" or anything close! They say "This tracking number does not exist." I thank scammers for refunding me but can not just sit here thinking "I'm good" and not tell others to be smarter than me when placing orders on FB Marketplace and using PayPal. When it seems like too good of a deal to be true, just remember that if it IS true you will likely not find a ton of warnings when you google one of the MANY names and weird emails like 1237&&%%%@ whatever platform (hypothetical email) listed on your receipt or on PayPal. You CAN find these companies listed, even overseas if you don't quit until you do. The names of the two companies who took 2 months to ship me 2 toothbrushes I didn't order and who now were able to deposit a refund directly into one of my listed PayPal cards, are:  CYD Technology Group LTD. - AND - Wisdone Trade Group Ltd. Each have websites of their own under different random names but when you find these websites some of them you'll use, 3 letters as their store name, or some odd store name like that. FB is obviously accepting money from these companies without googling too (lol yeah right) and then plants their outrageously inexpensive big ticket items at crazy low prices. FB even plants them in "Local Listings" on FB Marketplace. All FB has to do is make sure it says "sponsored" - I now take that to mean we should all do research these stores and companies before buying and google every name associated before we buy, because by FB and PayPal doing nothing about this, essentially they are saying "we're good" = "not our problem." Disbute, chargeback and scam. Tell me it’s fraud Chinese RIP offs and scams on Facebook @Fbmarketplace How can I escalate a fraud complaint when the scammer is defrauding the dispute resolution process? 

[Erwinar369]

@TheBluePill108 

I have same problem as yours. I am agree with you. 

I am a paypal member for more than 25 years. I also feel that Paypal should be better able to protect customers. By seeing the many complaints against fraud companies that are currently developing on FB and other social media. Maybe by checking the credibility of the shop / seller first, then shop or seller  able use paypal as a payment intermediary.

In cases I have experienced, my payment was not returned to my paypal account. But I replaced it with a voucher, which in the end I was forced to buy another product that I didn't need. The end item came in low quality, not worth the money I spent. I never understood, how can paypal allow refunds in the form of vouchers. The voucher cannot be cashed and can only be used to purchase goods at the shop. The return in the form of a voucher is also not with my knowledge or permission.

[Cwilmoth60]

This is the exact same problem I have experienced with a company that identifies themselves as Wisdone Trade Ltd. First of all, shame on me for trusting that PayPal was somewhat vetting the companies that they collect for, and secondly, for thinking that such a bargain was to be had. I have reached out to the company and received the same response. “The item was shipped and received” . They even say that it was signed for (absolutely not true). The item I ordered was “ the one and only island electric boat. “ How could that have possibly fit in my mailbox, as the email response suggested? When I google the company, I get no results, but when I google the item name, I get other companies with the same advertisement “$27.99”. So definitely buyer beware! But my complaint is also with PayPal for not ensuring that my money is going to a reputable company. That’s why I chose to use PayPal rather than card number for the order. Lots of people are out there trying to wrongly get their hands on our money. I will be more diligent in the future, but for now, I will be expecting a refund. Christine

[TheBluePill108]

Wow Christine. I’m so sorry that you to had to deal with this! That’s the same company! I warned FB everywhere I could yet know two others who ordered just the other day like we did. PayPal’s been living with even just my post and obviously do not protect. They just act as a money mule. Thanks for letting me know and I’m so sorry! I feel like a total idiot.

[laurenns22]

i quit ordering things on fb a long time ago because seems items would never come. but is it just me or is paypal on some shadiness in general. i have a legitimate business account that is constantly getting flagged and i’m unable to access my money for long periods of time and charged for this. This used to happen every now and then but now it’s almost always. I’m thinking about closing my paypal and venmo accounts because i don’t like the feeling of being unable to access my own money, especially when i’ve had this account about 5 years.

[Katybeth77]

This just happened to me a few weeks ago. I’m normally very cautious and do my homework checking into the company or site before I’d purchase something but because I was on marketplace and it was a “sponsored” ad I didn’t look into the company any further. The honest truth is that I assumed sponsored ads on Facebook had to be vetted. I also felt that the way Facebook was on top of flagging everyone’s posts for fact checking and even fact checking memes that are sarcasm and fact checking someone like me who is really no one at all with just a few friends and family followers, and right on top of covering photos that may be offensive within minutes of posting, that surely they fact checked their own sponsors. I fell for a “Flash deal” for a Bluetooth gaming chair down from almost $200 to $39.99 and the clock was ticking down. I was skeptical but when it said it only accepted payments through pay pal and you have the guarantee, I let my guard down. It opened pay pal but I hadn’t used PP in quite some time and it asked for my information. I knew I got a new debit card about a year or so ago so I thought that’s why I needed to enter it. Now the site I bought it at was called Something different (I can’t recall) but the email receipt they sent said Liberty boutique with a DOM logo I didn’t notice until later the page domain at the top said sale-m.store I received an email receipt from the company itself first and then I also received one from pay pal that said activate my account. Then I got another email from the “company” with my tracking number and this time the company name was SW Shop. And the customer service email address was bestcustomerservice@vip.163. That’s it. No other contact info. That’s when I knew. But I could not even click the tracking number they gave. I copied it and tried all the different services to track and it didn’t exist. Then I couldn’t find my pay pal receipt in my pay pal account. It said no transaction history but my bank account had it listed as pay pal Qiqingtang Trading Co., Ltd. that’s the newest company name. After calling PP they looked it up by my card number and Apparently they checked me out as a guest so when I was trying to go in to dispute it in the resolution center it wouldn’t give me that option because it wasn’t there in my account. Then I get a package from China in the mail And definitely isn’t a gaming chair because it fit in my little mailbox and it was the same tracking number that they did send me only it was a junk .25 cent vending machine fake ring. I did email the address asking about it and no response for over a week then a reply, “We checking Warehouse for order now”. But I didn’t give my information in my email Cause I really wasn’t even sure who I was emailing so I wrote back do you even know what I’m talking about what order it is? Another reply, so sorry check warehouse get back to you. Covid backed up. As I am on the phone with PP customer service rep and she opens the claim she’s telling me how it works and I will hear back with In my favor or not in my favor when suddenly she says “oh ok so your case is now closed in your favor. Your money will be refunded to your account and you don’t have to return the ring.” So this was almost midnight and that quick, my favor. Oh and there was no return address or sender info on the package just the word China. I don’t believe it was sent from China to begin with. These fake companies get to keep the total of 53$ for a five cent ring shipped within the US and when PP has to refund the money there has to be some write off, or insurance claim on their behalf because it’s a loss for them. Why would they even continue to let unverifiable companies use guest checkout with pp refund guarantee if they we’re losing money and not recovering it or profiting from the scam. I reported this to Facebook and pay pal. These same advertisements still there, different names but all China sites. Funny thing happened to my son last week for a pair of beats headphones and when he told me I immediately went to his pay pal and resolution center and had literally just hit send within the minute when he got a notification saying his case was closed in his favor and his money being refunded.

[laurenns22]

try contacting the BBB that’s ridiculous .

[Anonymous_User]

Thank you for alerting us.  I just seen an advert come up for a sofa bed for $39.99.  Wow what a bargain.  So I clicked on the link and had a look at the site.  The site is hhoois dot com. 

I'm thinking there is no way on this earth that any company would be selling a sofa at this price - come on!  As brilliant as that would be and would really help poverty stricken people in a pinch when they need to replace items such as sofas or beds, my alarm bells rung.  So I checked the bottom of the website to find the email address if you ever had any problems.  I plugged the email address into google and it took me to a number of sites shouting SCAM, including this one.  

So I went back into the site and made sure I had not plugged in any details of mine.  Reporting the post to facebook.  Thanks for the information as it really stopped me going further with the sale. 

[kernowlass]

@Anonymous_User 

Chinese Web Sites or on Social Media ads easy to spot (once you know the below signs) so buyer beware.

Paypal would not be able to check every individual seller / merchant / company in over 200 countries worldwide that adds paypal to their website to accept payments.

So they give some buyer and some seller protection. However that protection can never be a 100% coverall so you need to read it so you can risk assess your transactions.

They do stop bad companies from using Paypal when enough claims start rolling in.
However as they are in China (mostly) then its easy for them to just start over with a new name, so stopping them does not really do anything.

The best thing is to not buy from them in the first place, to recognise them -

1. No return address on the returns policy. The site will look as if its in your country (where they despatch goods from) but they will ask for returns to go back to China (returns depot) at a shipping cost often more than the item is worth.
2. No contact telephone number. if you click on contact the most you will get is webmail or an email address.
3. Rarely company address information.
4. Great pictures of items at bargain prices that turn out to be tat.
5. Fake reviews.
6. Google and you can often see previous company names as they change them once enough claims roll in and Paypal stop them using their services and start over.
7. Send fake tracking numbers to win item non receipt of item claims.

[Sandy1003]

How do I even get refund? The seller refused to fully refund me. He said 15% refund then 30% refund then last one asked me to pay $10 then he fully refunded me? How on earth is this going to be?